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Re: [Phys-l] Richard Dawkins Answers Reddit Questions



Well said. This mirrors what I have offered on the subject. I would, however, disagree that it is a small minority of scientists and science educators who take the hard line and believe they can "defeat" the fundamentalists. Eugenie Scott, from the National Center for Science Education, regularly talks on the subject to various audiences. She gave a talk at a National Science Teachers Association meeting, attended by a thousand or more members, in which she outlined an all out battle against the ID folks. There was one line in the speech that went something like, "That teacher down the hall might very well be discussing intelligent design in his or her classroom. You can't allow that to happen." (not an exact quote) Cheers from the audience of science teachers. Science educators would do well to explain what science is and is not, and explain what religion is and is not. As you and John said, scientists cannot disprove religion so why try?

Bill


William C. Robertson, Ph.D.


On Nov 19, 2010, at 12:28 PM, R. McDermott wrote:

I admit that I've read little of the commentary on this subject. What
little I have read has followed the predictable progression one comes to
expect in such discussions. John's comments below are somewhat unique, ime,
and demonstrate an unusual level of common sense. Consequently, I'm
motivated to make a few comments of my own; ones I've made before in other
venues and at other times...

Science is, imo, a process that can help us understand how the world
"works". Religion is a rigid framework for giving the world some
context/meaning. The two don't HAVE to be in general opposition, and, again
imo, the factions that ARE truly opposed are relatively small. The ranks in
opposition, on both sides, however, have been swelled by the actions/ words
of the opposing zealots. It need not be so.

On the one hand, we have a very vocal, but SMALL group of Christians who
insist in a literal interpretation of the wording of the Bible. On the
other, we have a vocal, but probably ALSO small, group of individuals who
feel it their duty to "debunk" the former group. Unfortunately, science is
the tool they choose to use in the debunking process. These two hard-line
positions are absolutely in conflict and will NEVER be otherwise. The trick
is not to expand the conflict to include individuals with moderate views
who, feeling under threat, are compelled to engage.

While Fundamentalist Christians may be plentiful in some areas of the US,
they remain a tiny minority of Christians in general, much less religious
believers, much less people in the US. I think it's easy to overlook that.

In the first and third quoted sections below, John points out the easiest
way to gut scientific opposition, leaving only the most zealous of science's
opponents. Don't allow science to become a blunt instrument of attack on
religion. Don't over-represent what science is. Explain how science works
and, yes, the limitations inherent in it.

I can understand the temptation to convert the "ignorant, ultra religious"
from their misguided beliefs, but it CAN'T BE DONE! This hard-core group is
simply going to counter-attack, and as the "scientific" response ramps up,
millions of moderate Christians are going to be forced into their camp,
reinforcing and expanding their influence. While you can contain a handful,
you can't contain ALL religious believers.

In the second section below, John refers to the limitations that a lack of
belief in evolution would impose on a biologist. I would point out that a
belief in the process of evolution, as in change over time, does not
contradict anything in the Bible. The conflict arises when one extrapolates
that into gross morphological changes over millions of years. One is
observable and is clearly fact; the other, however likely to be the case, is
not nearly as certain.

In the third section below, John outlines the blueprint for marginalizing
opposition. It comes down to not launching an all-out, scorched-earth
conflict, or over-selling the certitude of science. Instead, it suggests
that we do a better job of explaining what science is (and isn't).

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