Re: [Phys-l] Cheating, a great argument against online courses.

[Jack Uretsky <jlu@hep.anl.gov>]

"The same things can happen at MIT as well"
	Not when I was an undergrad, and was recieving personal help fron 
the professor (Sears) teaching the course, or a grad student who sold my 
wife's car ti the RA teaching the Mechanics course.  Maybe you had another 
school in miind.

"Trust me.  I have a lot of experience at this."
		General Custer's unremembered message to his men,
		just before leading them into the Little Big Horn Valley




On Wed, 17 Nov 2010, M. Horton wrote:

> The test issue is not what you said.  You talked about turning in fraudulent
> papers.
>
> I have nooooooooo idea how your NBA metaphor relates to any of this.  And
> you completely missed the MIT point.
>
> You said that online university degrees are useless because someone can turn
> in a paper that someone else wrote.  I pointed out that the same thing
> happens at in-person schools like MIT as well.  According to your original
> logic, if online degrees are useless because of fraudulent papers, then
> in-person degrees are useless because of fraudulent papers too.  I didn't
> say that MIT has any online courses.
>
> I know I'm not going to change your mind, but I am friends with the
> principal of an online school in my area and all of the students are on web
> cams with headphone/microphones during lessons.  They have software on the
> computer that takes their picture during tests through the webcam, doesn't
> allow any other windows (i.e. internet) to be opened during the testing
> session, and ends the test if there is no activity for a certain amount of
> time.  The teacher can see if the student leaves the computer, opens a book,
> etc.  Don't throw out all online education just because one school is bad.
> Sure, there are degree mill online universities.  But there are degree mill
> in-person universities too.  Both Walden and UoP have in-person schools.
>
> It appears to me that your distaste for online schools is more emotional
> than logical or you would have seen how all of your arguments apply to both
> types of schools equally.  There is cheating in both and there are both
> types of degree mills.
>
> I'd be curious to see if there's research comparing cheating in online
> courses and traditional courses.
>
> Mike
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "William Robertson" <wrobert9@ix.netcom.com>
> To: "Forum for Physics Educators" <phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 8:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [Phys-l] Cheating, a great argument against online courses.
>
>
> > First, I thought I made it clear that assignments in math and similar
> > subjects were especially suspect in online courses. Yes, you can turn
> > in a paper done by someone else in person, but to take a math or
> > physics test in person for someone else is much more difficult.
> > Second, if I told an NBA scout that he should think long and hard
> > before recommending his team draft someone five feet six inches tall,
> > should he come back with, "So, you're telling me Mugsy Bogues was a
> > terrible NBA player?" Does MIT produce a large number of online
> > degrees? Could I possibly have been referring to the thousands of
> > degrees handed out each year by places like Walden and University of
> > Phoenix?
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> > William C. Robertson, Ph.D.
> >
> >
> > On Nov 16, 2010, at 7:36 AM, M. Horton wrote:
> >
> > > Is turning in a paper written by someone else unique to online
> > > schools?
> > > Doesn't this happen in in-person schools too?  I don't think that's
> > > justification to take a degree from MIT with a grain of salt.
> > >
> > > Mike
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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