Re: [Phys-l] Solving American ______________

[marx@phy.ilstu.edu]

For a long time, people in the United States have not truly valued education beyond it being a tool to 
get a job.  The problem is that people do not consider what it might take to succeed in a job or how to 
be competitive and advance in a job.  Many people have taken on an "I deserve it" attitude.  If you want 
education to improve, you must first change the culture to one that finds value in education.  But 
education must do its part and rid itself of political agendas as well.

Secondly, stop acting as if you are a politican or a used car salesman when talking about issues.  
Simply state your case.  Argue on the battlefield of ideas.  If people have listened to your case and 
decide differently, let it go and be OK with the fact that they do not believe as you believe.  In honest 
debate, many people will be swayed by clearly presented factual information.  For example, if people 
were shown the evidence for global warming and not just told to accept it because lots of scientists 
claim its happening, then people might be persuaded.

There are too many people these days who now think that people are too stupid to make decisions for 
themselves and want to take away the freedom of people to make personal choices.  For example, 
New York restaurants told that they can't use salt in their cooking, etc.  Or people in California being 
told that they can't buy a car painted black.  Where does it end?  We need less elitism and more 
intellectual honesty.



On 9 Nov 2010 at 19:30, John SOHL wrote:

> Two points: 
>
> 1. Regardless of who is pushing for their agenda and what that is, the fact remains that the USA 
> has not been doing well in a large number of measures of knowledge. Not just scientific 
> knowledge either. The recent survey on the content of the Bible where atheists demonstrated 
> substantially better biblical knowledge than the average Christian shows that this knowledge issue 
> is diverse and wide spread. 
>
> So it seems to me that accusing each other of being the source is of marginal use. What realistic 
> things can we do to help solve the problem? For starters it almost certainly needs a political 
> solution as part of it. Lets face it, they hold the microphone and also the purse strings. But what 
> else will it take and what can we do as science educators? Judging Science Fair and doing 
> outreach traveling physics showsis all great, but it isn't making a big dent. 
>
> The problem is that the intellectuals (of either party) are not connecting with the population on 
> anything beyond a gut response of anger be it against oil companies or against climate research. 
>
> So I come back to the question of WHAT CAN I DO? I've already given up a high paying job in 
> industry to push the education agenda, but it is only reaching a small few. Yes, I can do 
> conceptual physics to the few hundred introductory students that I might have access to in my 
> classes, but that isn't doing much for the overall problem. How do we get the public to understand 
> that evidence and data are valuable and should be considered, even when it is uncomfortable? 
> How do we get people to place value in knowing more about our world, our economy, our history, 
> etc. 
>
> If we can get a focused program going then we might have a chance to get people to read, to 
> listen, to question. 
>
> Respecting each other is a good first step and agreeing to work hard to a solution. I just don't 
> know what that solution is. 
>
> 2. In reply to the message segment below, it is not hard to find the anti-intellectualism in 
> theRepublican Party, at the moment at least, it is harder to find it in the Democratic Party. Anyone 
> who thinks Utah isn't hopelessly right wing is not reading the news. There is an open distrust and 
> anger between the state's flagship university, the University of Utah, and the state legislature. 
> Looking a bit wider,several elections agoKarl Rove made an attack on Al Gore calling him a 
> "know-it-all."The obvious implication is that we don't want a president that is a knows anything, 
> that being knowledgeable is uncool and unwanted. By any definition that strikes me as being anit-
> intellectualism. 
>
> There are other examples (listen to a bit of Christine O'Donnell for example, or, shudder, look up 
> statements by Utah state senator Chris Butters) but I don't want this postto be about politics 
> directly.What I want are suggestions for solutions to our abysmal lack of interest (on average) in 
> science and engineering. Solutions that we, as educators, can put in place to make a real dent. 
> After all, that is part of what we have been hired to do. 
>
> John 
>
> - - - - - - - - -
> John E. Sohl, Ph.D.
> Professor of Physics
> Weber State University
> 2508 University Circle
> Ogden, UT 84408-2508
>
> voice: (801) 626-7907, fax: (801) 626-7445 
> cell: (801) 476-0589
> e-mail: jsohl@weber.edu 
>
>
> > > > marx@phy.ilstu.edu>11/9/2010 3:02 PM >>
> I have also failed to see the anti-intellectualism in the Tea Party that you all have
> spoken about. You are speaking in stereotypes and repeating things you've heard without taking 
> time
> to find out what people really think. 
>
>
>
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