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Re: [Phys-l] global temperatures


The data for the ice extent at the North Pole shows that the winter ice
extent is not diminishing, though it went through a dip a few years ago,
but the summer ice extent for the past two years is indeed lower than in
previous years. This doesn't mean that the whole of the polar ice is
going away any time soon. In fact, it doesn't prove anything. The South
Pole has vastly increased its ice thickness from the 1950s until the 90s.
The temperatures at the South Pole have only changed in a negligible way
over the past fifty years. However, the southern ocean temperatures have
been a bit higher. All of this data is readily available to anyone via a
simple Google search.

I think one should be concerned about the manipulation of the global
temperature dataset. The thing is that they make several corrections to
the raw data. One could argue that some of them are not done correctly or
that the dataset could be manipulated to the benefit of the climate change
scientists through these corrections. I, for one, think that the heat
island correction may be off by as much as a factor of two because it
doesn't take into account the population growth of cities, only their
areal growth.

No..there was a thread--maybe it was of PhysSoc about how the ice was
being
measured--from photos, which don't show thickness. I forget all the
details
now, just that there was controversy over how the amount of ice was being
determined. Someone had offered that the ice was 'gone' but that
certainly
is not yet the case. Again, the 'controversy' that was being discussed
(and
I offered this just as an aside anyway) was over the data
collection--basically how reliable IS the data. My point only being that
even the 'data' in the complex issue is sometimes in question. I see that
John Sohl has just offered a partial solution to the data question, but a
solution still awaiting a launch window. Does this mission require the
Shuttle--if so, it is probably dead. If not, what's the hang up?


Rick


----- Original Message -----
From: "John Mallinckrodt" <ajm@csupomona.edu>
To: "Forum for Physics Educators" <phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu>
Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Phys-l] global temperatures


Rick,

The only news I've heard recently is that the melting appears to be
occurring much faster than any of the models had predicted, but that
wouldn't seem to constitute a "controversy" in the context of this
discussion. Is that what you are referring to?

John Mallinckrodt
Cal Poly Pomona

On Apr 4, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Rick Tarara wrote:


----- Original Message -----
From: "John Denker" <jsd@av8n.com>

On 04/04/2009 08:02 AM, Rick Tarara wrote in part:
We need to keep the questions clear here. The polar melting (and
there
has
been some controversy on that lately as well), [1]

Controversy? There's also controversy about evolution, and
controversy
about whether astronauts landed on the moon, and controversy about
whether Elvis is dead. Controversy is not evidence. Please let's
stick to the evidence.


The Controversy is exactly over the evidence--just how much of the
polar
ice has melted.

But if what one gets on this list are flippant and derogatory
responses......................

rwt

_______________________________________________
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Phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu
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_______________________________________________
Forum for Physics Educators
Phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu
https://carnot.physics.buffalo.edu/mailman/listinfo/phys-l


_______________________________________________
Forum for Physics Educators
Phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu
https://carnot.physics.buffalo.edu/mailman/listinfo/phys-l