Chronology Current Month Current Thread Current Date
[Year List] [Month List (current year)] [Date Index] [Thread Index] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Date Prev] [Date Next]

Re: [Phys-l] Textbooks vs multimedia

Thanks, Bob. My repeated question in discussions of teaching, is, "What is our objective?" So far I have not seen an answer that I can explain th an average intelligent taxpayer.
Regards,
Jack


On Mon, 9 Feb 2009, LaMontagne, Bob wrote:

We are the students who "intelligently" used the textbooks. I know that
I have brought up this somewhat elitist point a couple of times in the
past, but why are we wasting time and effort forcing people to study
physics who have absolutely no interest in the subject? Our biggest
problem in education, IMHO, is that we overeducate people. No
non-scientist uses academic physics in their life after leaving school.
They use rules of thumb that they have learned through experience. I
also still strongly believe that high school and college science do not
in any way make us informed citizens who can vote more intelligently
(the usual excuse for forcing science on students).

Bob at PC

-----Original Message-----
From: phys-l-bounces@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu
[mailto:phys-l-bounces@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu] On Behalf Of Richard
Tarara
Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 9:20 PM
To: Forum for Physics Educators
Subject: Re: [Phys-l] Textbooks vs multimedia

I heard Sadler talk about his survey work just prior to it being
published.
There are so many other factors here (by his own admission) that even
declaring this 'negative evidence' goes too far. Once again, despite
John's
constant reference this or that research (psychological research in
essence--something we'd be wise to remember), common sense should not be

ignored. Students who 'intelligently' use their text book (which
implies
they can actually read such), should certainly gain a bit over those who

simply listen to the lectures, or do the in-class exercises, etc. My
own
exhortations about using the book is that, unlike class which by
necessity
will deal in depth with only certain topics and be limited in examples
and
background information, the book is organized to give a much more
complete
treatment, with more examples, more proofs, more history. Students who
take
advantage of the resource will certainly profit--at least a little.

[Example of what Sadler said: The success without a text book often
came
from classes where the instructor had basically prepared extensive notes
and
provided them to the class--essentially a 'book'. I may be wrong, but
as I
recall, much of the evaluation here was by grades, or success in a
College
course to evaluate the High School course.]

Rick

Richard W. Tarara
Professor of Physics
Department of Chemistry & Physics
Saint Mary's College
Notre Dame, IN 46556

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Clement" <clement@hal-pc.org>
To: "'Forum for Physics Educators'" <phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu>
Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Phys-l] Textbooks vs multimedia



There is no evidence available to show that one standard text works
better
than another.

I just remembered, there is some negative evidence for the use of
textbooks.
Philip Sadler of Harvard did a survey of college physics success in
physics
vs the usage of textbooks.

1. Classes that used textbooks had lower success in college physics
than
classes that used no text.
2. Classes where the teacher finished the book, did worse than
classes
where the teacher only finished part of the book.

So the success went down as the book usage went up. This survey did
not
differentiate between different types of books, and was mostly for
conventionally taught physics classes because IE is a small fraction
of
classes nationwide. I believe his report is on his web site.

John M. Clement
Houston, TX


_______________________________________________
Forum for Physics Educators
Phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu
https://carnot.physics.buffalo.edu/mailman/listinfo/phys-l


_______________________________________________
Forum for Physics Educators
Phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu
https://carnot.physics.buffalo.edu/mailman/listinfo/phys-l
_______________________________________________
Forum for Physics Educators
Phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu
https://carnot.physics.buffalo.edu/mailman/listinfo/phys-l


--
"Trust me. I have a lot of experience at this."
General Custer's unremembered message to his men,
just before leading them into the Little Big Horn Valley