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Re: [Phys-l] Poll shows fewer Americans "believe" in global, warming

I think Marty and several others have hit on the problem; the word "believe" often has a semi-religious overtone. To many people "believe" is equivalent to "faith in something that will never change" or even "my strongly held opinion that I have no intention of changing no matter what".
But most often scientists have something slightly different in mind. If I say I believe in something, for example evolution or the theory of relativity, what I really mean is that I think there is good evidence supporting it and no credible evidence against it. So it is reasonable to believe in it, at least until there was credible evidence to the contrary.

The idea that we can (and ought to) change our beliefs when we get new, better evidence seems to be a foreign idea to most people. Yet most people do this all the time, at least for beliefs that aren't so central. We believe our neighbor is honest and then we find his name in the paper as a crook so we change our belief.

I have no problem if someone uses the word believe in the above sense, either for belief in god or belief in evolution or even belief that evolution doesn't occur. Once we understand "belief" as something open to change based on evidence we can start talking about evidence.

kyle
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 19:41:53 -0400
From: Marty Weiss <martweiss@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Phys-l] Poll shows fewer Americans "believe" in global
warming
To: Forum for Physics Educators <phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu>,
Physics and Society D-L Society D-L <physoc@listserv.uark.edu>
Message-ID: <8A314D12-F3F4-46BB-BCFC-B9E8F6D3E103@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes

POLL: JUST 39% BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION
Posted: Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:30 AM by Mark Murray

From NBC's Mark Murray
Today it's not only Abraham Lincoln's birthday; it's also Charles
Darwin's.

And a brand-new Gallup poll tied to Darwin's birthday finds that just
39% of Americans believe in evolution.

As expected, Gallup notes, education plays a big role here: 74% of
those with post-graduate degrees believe in evolution. That's compared
with only 21% of high school grads (or those with less education) who
believe in the theory.

Ditto religion: 55% who don't attend church believe in evolution,
versus 24% of weekly churchgoers who believe in it.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/02/12/1791814.aspx



Yes, the general public does use the word BELIEVE in a religious
sense. Here is the main thrust of my original post: The use of
the word BELIEVE in asking people about things they are most likely
uninformed about was the main thing I was trying to argue. And, yes,
many people ARE so dumb as to interpret BELIEVE in that sense.
They do NOT know the current science of they are being asked about,
and the word BELIEVE sets off a similar red flag in their minds.
Look at the first thing most uninformed people will say...
Evolution? Man from monkeys, absolutely NOT. Ask the average Joe
and that is exactly what he will say or ask. "No, I don't believe
man came from monkeys!" That's what evolution means to the average
person on the street. It's not descent with change, or change over a
long period of time, or any of the other rational statements. It's
immediately, "I'm not related to any monkey!" The same thing happens
to almost any scientific theory we can name that seems out of place or
not real to the people. Buit, ask them if they BELIEVE in the spirit
world, and I bet a larger number will say, "Of course there are
spirits! My Aunt Gracie came back to me a few nights ago." Ghost
Hunters is a very popular program now and even usually reliable
scientific companies are selling ghost detectors. (See the posts of
today on the physics or chem group list and the disclaimer from the
chairman of marketing for that company.) It is not elitist to show
distain for most of those people. Just look at the poll above. Use
the word believe and they immediately return to their educational and
religious roots. The amount of school plays a big role in this, and
we teachers obviously did not get any points across in our science
classes! I CAN legitimately say, "I don't believe President Obama
is not doing a good job." But, I cannot legitimately say, "I don't
believe the world is round." (don't nitpick with spherical or other
such terms... you get my drift!). The word BELIEVE is so overused in
scientific polls as to be completely useless to the pollster.
Now, as to the other thing a few of you got wrong about my original
post. Some people here keep focusing in the global warming issue like
a red flag to a bull. The title was global warming but that was
only a small reference to the discussion of the word BELIEVE. You
may ask what other word would you use? I DID ask that same question,
and to criticize my post without referring to my asking the same
question is disingenuous to say the least.

Marty


On Oct 22, 2009, at 1:23 PM, LaMontagne, Bob wrote:


--
------------------------------------------
"The modern conservative is engaged in one
of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy;
that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
- John Kenneth Galbraith

kyle forinash kforinas@ius.edu -----------------------------------------