Chronology Current Month Current Thread Current Date
[Year List] [Month List (current year)] [Date Index] [Thread Index] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Date Prev] [Date Next]

Re: [Phys-l] Out-of-Class Work (was Lecture vs Advocacy)



Rick Tarara said, "My pet peeve about the 'new pedagogy' being touted by the PER reformers, is that it largely does IN CLASS what should be done OUT OF CLASS."

Please refer to my response to M.E. The teacher is now held responsible for the students' learning. It follows, then, that since we can't influence what they do at home, we must transfer as much information in the classroom as possible.

As to the rest of what you wrote, the point is that the STUDENTS' actions determine whether or not they learn. Lecturing as in the old days only works for those who are motivated to do the work. The students have to wrestle with the ideas, question, analyze, etc. If they don't do that, then everything is simply a list of facts with no connection, relevence, or deep meaning. You describe a classrom situation in which students are ACTIVELY engaged in what is going on in the classroom. If they're actively engaged, then they WILL learn. It's what THEY say and do that is important. THAT is ultimately the point.

Also, again, bear in mind the audience. College students are INFINITELY more receptive to "lecture" than the population at large, and elementary, middle, and to a slightly lesser extent, high school consist of the ENTIRE population.


----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Tarara" <rtarara@saintmarys.edu>
To: "Forum for Physics Educators" <phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu>
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Phys-l] Out-of-Class Work (was Lecture vs Advocacy)


I am basically in agreement with everything Michael says here. My pet peeve
about the 'new pedagogy' being touted by the PER reformers, is that it
largely does IN CLASS what should be done OUT OF CLASS. We seem to be
restructuring courses and course work to accommodate student's expectations
and attitudes towards the level of effort they think they should expend
rather than demanding the levels that experience shows is needed to actually
learn the concepts and learn and practice the skills needed [again apply
this to any and all courses]. The other 'straw man' here is LECTURE. Just
what is that? There is a vast array of instructional styles and techniques
and how we classify most is purely arbitrary. What I do in the classroom is
a great deal different than what most of my professors did (back at the dawn
of time) and yet it is still _mostly_ me talking and mostly me working
problems on the board. Yet I am talking more _with_ the students than _at_
them, and what I'm writing on the board is what they tell me to write (with
some prodding). So is that lecture? The labs are integrated into the
course (we meet for 75 minutes 4 times a week and labs happen JUST as we are
dealing with that material) which allows a different pedagogical focus on
the lab work--in my case I focus more on the lab book and on integrating the
results from lab work into our overall understanding than on report writing.
I do expect students to read the text--essential since I 'lecture' very
little of the text. I expect them to do the homework (and reward them
handsomely for doing so). I expect them to reflect on their lab work and to
write up those reflections as part of a summary/analysis of their lab work.
All of that must be done outside the actual time spent in class. I feel I
am reasonably successful getting students to do this (well not so sure on
the reading). What I have come to understand, especially with the
general-education classes, is that (for the most part) students WILL do what
is specifically assigned (and graded), but will do little else. That, to
me, is the 'new' burden on instructors--to structure the work you want
students to do outside the classroom as specific assignments for which they
seem some tangible reward/punishment for doing or not.

Rick

***************************
Richard W. Tarara
Professor of Physics
Saint Mary's College
Notre Dame, IN
rtarara@saintmarys.edu
******************************
Free Physics Software
PC & Mac
www.saintmarys.edu/~rtarara/software.html
*******************************



----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Edmiston" <edmiston@bluffton.edu>
To: "Forum for Physics Educators" <phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu>
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 9:14 AM
Subject: [Phys-l] Out-of-Class Work (was Lecture vs Advocacy)


Something that continues to bother me every time we have a discussion
about
the teaching format that ought to occur during the 50 minutes or so of
class
time, is the lack of discussion about what happens outside of class time.
I
would probably be less bothered by this if it were obvious to me that most
teachers (especially science, but really all teachers) held students
responsible for doing a reasonable amount of study, problem solving, lab
calculations and report writing... outside the class period.

It is abundantly clear to me that students coming to college have become
used to doing nothing outside the class period. Although this begins in
high school, I can't put all the blame on high school because there is
ample
evidence this also happens in many college courses. When I tell students
I
expect them to spend 15 clock-hours per week on my 5-credit-hour course,
their first reaction is laughter. They think I'm kidding. I go on to
tell
them that this includes everything. They are in class each day, so there
are 5 hours right there. They are taking data in lab for about 2 hours a
week, so now we are up to 7 hours. If they would spend 2 or 3 hours
analyzing data and writing the lab report we would be up to 9 or 10 hours.
That leaves about 5 hours for reading the textbook, general studying
(rereading, review of class notes, etc.), and working on problem sets.
Students are permitted to collaborate on the data acquisition, data
analysis, problem solving, and of course they can study together... so
lots
of collaborative work should be happening.

If students would do the things outside of class that I listed above, it
would hardly matter what I did during "lecture" time. Since I am still
trying to operate on the idea that students work outside class, all I
attempt to do in "lecture" is go over some of difficult areas, talk about
common pitfalls, answer/discuss a few questions, and discuss/assign the
new
lab and new problems. On the other hand, if students do nothing outside
of
class such that the only time set aside for any learning whatsoever occurs
in the five 50-minute class periods a week, then I think we are doomed.
In
this case it also hardly matters what I do during "lecture" time because
it
won't be anywhere close to enough.

Many of my students will probably tell you that I mostly lecture. That's
because I probably do "lecture" about 20 minutes each day, for a total of
100 minutes of lecture per week. I indeed lecture about one-third to
one-half of the in-class time. But the total time they are supposed to be
on task is about 900 minutes per week. By my definition, this is clearly
teacher-directed time, so I am only lecturing about 11% of the time that
they are supposed to be working on physics material that I am
directing/coordinating/grading. They should be spending about 90% the
total
physics time in lab collecting data (with lab partners), group analysis of
data, group support solving problems (not quite group solving), and
individually writing lab reports. I have approximately 4 office hours per
day so I am abundantly available for individual visits or group visits.
Is
this a lecture class? Not even close.

Thirty years ago when I first began college teaching, this is the way it
was
at my school. Today, this model is no longer working at my school. I
have
evidence it still works at institutions in which 95% or more of the
applicants to the program don't get accepted. The top 5% of high-school
students are either used to working or will rise to the occasion. They
know
if they don't, there is a long line of students waiting to take their
places.

Today, my daughter is near the end of the 4th year of a 5-yr program that
admits 16 students out of about 600 applicants. For the past 4 years she
and her student colleagues have worked on course-related projects day and
night. They will flunk out of the program if they don't, and they know
that. On the other hand, at institutions where the average student in
college was also an average student in high school, the work ethic simply
is
not there. Instead, they are still spending time doing the things they
did
in high school... playing on one or more sport teams, singing in choir,
playing in band, acting in a play... not bad things if done in
moderation...
but for some this is where they spend almost 100% of their awake time...
especially the athletes. Then there are those who are partying, exploring
each other, exploring alcohol or other substances, spending money on and
enjoying material things, you name it.

What allows students to stay in school if all their awake time outside of
class time is spent on non-class activities? The answer is simple... we
allow it. We restructure our curriculum and our teaching methods so that
in-class time is the only thing that is needed for the average student to
pass the course. If there are a few old timers like me around who try to
bring these students up to speed in terms of work expected, all they do is
leave science and flock into majors like business, recreation management,
and even teaching (especially elementary and middle school). If we don't
try to bring these students up to speed, thereby trying to cram all
learning
into class time, they are nowhere near where they need to be to do well
on
GRE, MCAT, etc. exams, and they are not likely to succeed in the next
phase
or their careers.

Bottom line... I don't particularly care how you spend your class time as
long as your class time is approximately one-third of the total time the
average student needs to spend on your class in order to pass your class.
On the other hand, if you have structured your in-class time and your
grading procedure such that the required out-of-class time for passing the
course is less than the time spent in class... then please stop this
method
of teaching. No matter what you do in class, you are not developing the
work ethic that we need to instill in our students.


_______________________________________________
Forum for Physics Educators
Phys-l@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu
https://carnot.physics.buffalo.edu/mailman/listinfo/phys-l