Re: [Phys-l] Intelligent designists fight back

[Monsieur et Madame Vieuxbouc <martweiss@earthlink.net>]

R. McDermott wrote:

> Comments inline (easier to follow in this case, I think)
>
> On Fri, 2008-01-11 at 13:13 -0500, Rick Tarara wrote:
>  
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> > A few observations on the below.
> >
> > a) What is a very, VERY small group?  There seems to be a number of 
> > religious groups--some not so minor--that are 'Biblical Fundamentalist'. 
> > Not all of those insist on a 'young earth', but are those numbers really 
> > tiny.
   This number is not as small as you would think.   The number of the 
Ultra Orthodox, that I work with,  has been estimated alone at between 
150,000 and 200,000 in the US.  And these are just the Ultra Orthodox 
Jewish population, not including the Modern Orthodox which would bring 
that population up to maybe 500,000 of the over 5 to 6 million Jews in 
the US.  That's just the Jewish portion of those who believe in a 
literal translation of the Bible (Torah)!

   It is interesting to note, the Modern Orthodox are more flexible in 
their beliefs and can accept macro and micro evolution to a point, 
meaning quite possibly the designer of the universe who set things in 
motion in the time frame we generally accept. (ID)    However, the Ultra 
Orthodox believe very strongly in the complete literal translation of 
the Torah and the world is literally 5768 years old.    The dinosaurs 
existed contemporaneously with humans, and none of macro evolution is 
true and cannot be true because God spells it out in Genesis.   I am 
fortunate in that the people I work for did not tear out the chapters on 
evolution from the Biology textbooks, as is often the case in many of 
the other schools that the Ultra Orthodox students attend.   When my 
students look over the book in the beginning of the year they marvel at 
the fact that the Evolution chapters are intact, as are the chapters on 
the reproductive system.    

   Once, 7 years ago, during a parental conference a mother extended 
her hand to me.  I asked her if she really wanted to shake hands (which 
no woman is supposed to do with a strange man) and she laughed and said, 
"Oh, that's a ridiculous custom, and I also believe in dinosaurs."  At 
that time I didn't understand what she meant... I understand it now, 
after 8 years in this school!      Just this past week we were 
discussing  pictures in their Spanish textbooks where the book had 
people speaking about various topics and objects in Spanish ("May  I 
borrow your book?" with a picture of a boy a holding a book and a girl 
asking the question.)   The student said in the school his brother 
attends the Rabbis literally blacked out every picture that had a woman 
or girl in it!   Plus, even in his brother's school's chemistry and 
physics book they had blacked out every picture of women scientists I 
don't know if that included Mme Curie??)    

  These stories would be just anecdotes of interest and little more, 
except one cannot underestimate the political and cultural influence 
such a relatively small number of people have on the governmental and 
social scene in the US!    I suppose you from the midwest and south do 
not know anyone in this group, but trust me they are everywhere... 
obviously NY, NJ, PA, FLA. and Michigan, but in St. Louis, Atlanta, even 
Denver!    If they wanted to raise a fuss about textbooks, the boards of 
education in  New York, Florida, Michigan, Pennsylvania, California, and 
New Jersey could not ignore their power, influence, and money!   Luckily 
for the rest of us, they just want to be left alone and are not about to 
cause problems like the Dover case, although to me to censor or cut out 
every picture of the reproductive system, or dinosaurs,  or Hispanic 
women is itself anti academic.   As the old saying goes,  "a mind is a 
terrible thing to waste."

 

> > [Something I have to remind myself of often--especially after a xmas trip to 
> > the Gulf coast of Florida and viewing all the MONEY and asking where it 
> > comes from--1% of 300 million people is 3 MILLION!  Small percentages can 
> > still be BIG numbers.]
> >    
>
> But small minorities are ignored politically unless they are rich.  True
> Fundamentalists are seldom also rich.       
Except for the group I have written about above.    They are among the wealthiest groups in the country.   


Marty

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