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Re: [Phys-l] Kozol fasts to protest NCLB - defense of unions

The problem is, teachers are blue collar workers. This is because they do not control the conditions of their employment *. W/ regard to the conditions of employment there is little difference between a carpenter working for large construction firm and a teacher working for a district. Because teachers are publicly paid it's rather difficult for them to become professionals. One method would be for a group of teachers to create a "private" school in which they elect among themselves the governing board. I understand this is the Cuban model; also the model that existed for a very short time in anarchist Spain. Of course one may also become a professional, individually, as a glorified tutor. This is the model that existed(s?) in England, unfortunately such private tutors were viewed as servants, like the cook and butler. Under capitalism, as it is practised in the US, unions are the dominant practical method of ensuring a modicum of democracy in the workplace. Here in Salinas a strike was necessary in order to obtain a very much delayed raise for the community college teachers. This is because a majority of the board are business people. A business person is, ipso facto, unqualified as an administrator ** or board member of an educational institution. This is what has ruined UC.
A recent poster has suggest changes for improvement in school governance that mirror that of many universities, including how the instructors are evaluated and promoted. i.e. a governance that is dominated by academics . This is certainly more democratic, and, therefore, more conducive to high morale.

* They can't even artificially limit their number, as how doctors take advantage of supply and demand.
** Of course, financial and budget officers excepted.

bc, thinks that "blue collar attitude" is fostered by the rulers not the workers.

p.s. if one want to gauge the value of public workers compare their pay and working conditions.





http://www.ci.salinas.ca.us/Admin/HRsalsched.html

http://www.salinas.k12.ca.us/pdf/personnelbroch.pdf

Continuing to read impels me to further comment:

"The 'merit' component of those salaries is only in the educational level which is folded into the years of experience to set the pay scales. Unfortunately, that system then promotes a cottage industry of educational businesses that provide academic credit for various workshops that too often are taken ONLY to get the credit--not to improve skills and knowledge (part of the 'blue-collar' thing.)"


what's wrong w/ taking courses solely to improve pay? Isn't that a natural response to the business model of education? Not certain what Rick means by the "blue collar thing" When I was an apprentice sheet metal and general construction worker, my "colleagues" were constantly showing me techniques and giving me hints on how to do my job. I see this quite extensively among my wife's colleagues. When gate keeper agreed to transfer to kinder from 3'rd. She took a short summer course at SF State. She said it was invaluable -- Die Kinder are VERY different from third graders. How often is too often, one or 10%?
"Then there are the economics. The UAW may have gotten high wages for its workers, but those same high wages have crippled the American auto industry. There is no mystery why unskilled and semi-skilled labor jobs are being outsourced--the cost of local labor. That's not to say American workers should be paid Chinese wages--it is costly to export the technology and import the goods--all of which can go into higher wages here, but when the labor costs are many times what can be had on the world market, just what has been accomplished. {Compare the hourly rate for teachers and auto workers!}"

There are two, at least, alternative analyses of the present condition. The unintended consequence and the conspiracy. I favour the conspiracy as the other implies stupidity on the part of the ruling class. The purpose of globalization is to destroy unions and reduce most of the population to third world status. If one credits the rulers w/ intelligence one only need view the result of their actions and conclude that was their purpose. The rulers are the problem not the unions, except possibly their failure of intelligence, solidarity, and acceptance of a failed social contract. OTOH for example, despite H. Ford's many "faults", he did have one thing right. When asked why he paid his workers (at one point) so well, he answered how otherwise can they afford my autos.





Rick Tarara wrote:

While I fully understand the reasons for the 'need' for teacher's unions in public education, the net effect has not been entirely positive. In my mind, the most serious problem with unions is that they foster a 'blue-collar' attitude on the part of far too many teachers. That is, way too many teachers are 'punching the clock' rather than being professional educators. That, unfortunately, seems to be the nature of the union beast. [Seen personally and related to me by my wife who spent half her career in public schools--never a willful member of the union--both as teacher and administrator.] When teachers act like teamsters, they will be viewed in the same light--perhaps positively by other union members but negatively by the general public.

Teacher salaries are not necessarily out of step. Look at the average income of American workers and look at experienced teacher salaries--and compare those to other government workers--never losing site of the fact that these are nine-month jobs (for the most part) -- with many more holidays than the general worker. Yes I know all the outside work that many put in, but not everyone is as dedicated as the people on this list or their immediate compatriots. The public perception is that teachers have 20-25% fewer work days than most people for salaries that range from 30 up to 80,000 dollars a year. Sure if you choose to live and work in San Francisco you can only afford a 3rd floor walkup, 3 room apartment, but you can get 'free' health care from the local socialist government. ;-) At least around here (Midwest) the top end of public teachers salaries are about the same as associate/full professor salaries at smaller colleges (which is either a sign of good teacher pay or lousy College pay).

The 'merit' component of those salaries is only in the educational level which is folded into the years of experience to set the pay scales. Unfortunately, that system then promotes a cottage industry of educational businesses that provide academic credit for various workshops that too often are taken ONLY to get the credit--not to improve skills and knowledge (part of the 'blue-collar' thing.)

As with most human endeavor, there is good and bad with unions. They do protect workers from the abuses that seem to naturally flow from management, but when they get big and powerful, they seem to morph into a kind of abusive management of their own. [Locally we've had illegal strikes with the union and union members abusing those who chose to remain law abiding and continued to work.] Then there are the economics. The UAW may have gotten high wages for its workers, but those same high wages have crippled the American auto industry. There is no mystery why unskilled and semi-skilled labor jobs are being outsourced--the cost of local labor. That's not to say American workers should be paid Chinese wages--it is costly to export the technology and import the goods--all of which can go into higher wages here, but when the labor costs are many times what can be had on the world market, just what has been accomplished. {Compare the hourly rate for teachers and auto workers!}

So, IMO, unions--more importantly the attitudes fostered by unions amongst what should be a highly professional group of people--is part of the problem. Administrations are clearly another. But I do agree with John that without more support from the home--the task of educating our children will be extremely difficult. Now if we want to get into political philosophies and tossing around blame for things--we could look at the disintegration of the family and cultural (sub-cultural) attitudes towards education, but maybe we should skip that for now. ;-)

Rick



----- Original Message ----- From: "John Barrer" <forcejb@yahoo.com>

Finally, I would argue that teachers unions have
generally been unsuccessful at maintaining the
standard of living of most teachers, relative to the
rest of the workforce. So, on several grounds, I
believe that portraying teacher's unions as a
significant part of the problems facing our schools is
just a bit disingenuous. I think the real emphasis
ought to be on dramatically increasing out-of-school
(parents,etc)support of and co-operation with the
in-school educational process. I have no insight as to
how to accomplish this, but I don't think it's an
issue that can dealt with by classroom teachers.

John BArrere


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