Chronology Current Month Current Thread Current Date
[Year List] [Month List (current year)] [Date Index] [Thread Index] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Date Prev] [Date Next]

[Phys-l] The Socratic Method of the Historical Socrates, Plato's Socrates, and the Law School's Socrates



***************************************
ABSTRACT: The "Socratic Method" (SM) means different things to different people. I discuss three interpretations: the SM of (a) the historical Socrates as advocated by Arons, (b) Plato as illustrated in the "Meno," and (c) most law schools. Although the Socratic Method of the historical Socrates has been demonstrated to be relatively effective in enhancing students' understanding of the conceptually difficult Newtonian mechanics, it is not a panacea, but is most useful for finding out what and how students are thinking, guiding them to construct their own understanding of difficult concepts, and for conveying fruitful approaches and reasoning skills.
***************************************

If you reply to this long (28 kB) post please don't hit the reply button unless you prune the copy of this post that may appear in your reply down to a few relevant lines, otherwise the entire already archived post may be needlessly resent to subscribers.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
PROLOGUE: I realize that bracket lines (such as "AAAAA. . . ." surrounding the Arons quote below) are unorthodox and confusing to some readers, but they do serve to:
(a) avoid (in most cases) awkward quotes within quotes ". . . .'........'. . . .", and
(b) "clearly indicate who said what, unlike the ambiguous marginal angle brackets ">", ">>", ">>>". . . . . that befoul many posts. Therefore I shall continue their use in the present post.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Responding to my post "Re: Review article on electronic instructional polling?" [Hake (2007)], a POD subscriber wrote to me privately:

"[In your post on electronic polling Hake (2007)] you referred to . . . . [Re: 'Socratic Method Misunderstood' (Hake, 2004a)]. . . . As a law-school survivor and faculty developer, I would like to read this piece, but couldn't find the reference in the bibliography at the end of your post. Would you mind providing the reference for me?

The reference Hake (2004a) is as indicated below under REFERENCES.

As discussed in Hake (2004a), the "Socratic Method" (SM) means at least three (I, II, and III) different things to different people:

I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I
I. HISTORICAL SOCRATES.

The late Arnold Arons (1973, 1974, 1985, 1993, 1997) described his version of SM as follows (Arons (1985, my CAPS):

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
One must learn to ask simple, sequential questions, leading students in a deliberate Socratic fashion. After each question, *ONE MUST SHUT UP AND LISTEN CAREFULLY TO THE RESPONSE.* [It is the tendency of most inexperienced questioners to provide an answer, or to change the question, if a response is not forthcoming within one second.] One must learn to wait as long as four of five seconds, and one then finds that the students, having been given a chance to think, will respond in sentences and truly reveal their lines of thought. As students respond to such careful questioning, one can begin to discern the errors, misconceptions, and missteps in logic that are prevalent. One learns nothing by giving students "right answers" or "lucid explanations."

As a matter of fact, STUDENTS DO NOT BENEFIT FROM SUCH ANSWERS OR EXPLANATIONS; THEY SIMPLY MEMORIZE THEM. Students are much more significantly helped when they are led to confront contradictions and inconsistencies in what they say and then spontaneously alter their statements as a result of such contradiction.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


In his addendum to "Toward Wider Public Understanding of Science," Arons (1974) had this to say regarding the benefit of Socratic Dialogue to the teacher and to education:

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
I am deeply convinced that a statistically significant improvement would occur if more of us learned to listen to our students . . . By listening to what they say in answer to carefully phrased, leading questions, we can begin to understand what does and does not happen in their minds, anticipate the hurdles they encounter, and provide the kind of help needed to master a concept or line of reasoning without simply 'telling them the answer'.. . . .Nothing is more ineffectually arrogant than the widely found teacher attitude that "all you have to do is say it my way, and no one within hearing can fail to understand it.". . . . Were more of us willing to relearn our physics by the dialogue and listening process I have described, we would see a discontinuous upward shift in the quality of physics teaching. I am satisfied that this is fully within the competence of our colleagues; the question is one of humility and desire.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Following Arons [Hake (1991, 2004b)], I developed "Socratic Dialogue Inducing" (SDI) Labs as described in "Promoting student crossover to the Newtonian world" [Hake (1987), "Professors as physics students: what can they teach us?" [Hake (1988)], "Socratic pedagogy in the introductory physics lab" [Hake (1992)], "Socratic Dialogue Inducing Laboratory Workshop" [Hake (2002)], and on the SDI website <http://www.physics.indiana.edu/~sdi>.

Rigorous pre/post testing has demonstrated that instruction incorporating SDI labs is relatively effective in promoting students' understanding of Newtonian mechanics [see the average normalized gains <g> listed in Table 1c of Hake (1998b)].
That SDI labs, as inspired by Arons, are in tune with the HISTORICAL Socrates of Gregory Vlastos (1991, 1994) was indicated by Vlastos (1990) who wrote to me "Though Socrates was not engaged in physical inquiry, your program . . . . . "Socratic pedagogy in the introductory physics lab" [Hake (1992)]. . . . . is entirely in his spirit."

For a neural-network justification of the dialectic method see "Toward a modeling theory of physics instruction" [Hestenes (1987)].

II-II-II-II-II-II-II-II-II-II-II-II-II-II-II-II-II-II-II-II-II-II-II-II-II
II. "MENO" [Plato (380 B.C.)]

Anthony Rud (1997) in "The Use and Abuse of Socrates in Present Day Teaching," comments on Plato's version of the Socratic method as follows:

RuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRu
SOCRATIC PEDAGOGY IN THE MENO
. . . . . perhaps we can turn to one place where many have looked when they speak of Socratic teaching, Plato's dialogue Meno. An old man drawing geometric figures in the sand for a young slave boy is a powerful image of what many believe Socratic teaching to be. . . . . . . . . . . . Socrates begins his lesson by putting words in the mouth of the slave boy (82B f.). Is this a convincing display of pedagogy? Leaving aside the blatant (to my eyes at least) problems of power and dominance of an elderly Greek citizen teaching a slave boy, this example of teaching has always left me cold. It is not apparent at all that teaching has occurred though it is a convincing display of inference as R. E. Allen (1959) has pointed out. It is not made clear in the dialogue that the slave boy is somehow capable of using his knowledge. He appears more like a sounding board for Socrates, who here seems to be just a mouthpiece for the theories of recollection (anamnesis) and innate knowledge.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
RuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRu

Physics education researcher Robert Morse (1994) provides an insightful parody of the Meno in his "The Classic Method of Mrs. Socrates."
Philosophers Denis Phillips & Jonas Soltis (1998) regard the Meno as strictly an illustration of Plato's view that knowledge is innate in students' minds and only needs to be drawn out by dialogue. Likewise philosopher George MacDonald Ross (1993) writes: "Most of our knowledge of Socrates comes from Plato's dialogues; yet Plato used Socrates as the mouthpiece for his own views. So how can we disentangle the historical Socrates from the amalgam of Socrates and Plato we find in the texts?"

Disentangling the historical Socrates from Plato's Socrates was the life's work of Vlastos. In Chapter 2, p. 52-53, Vlastos (1990) describes the divergence of Plato in his middle and later dialogues from the historical Socrates of the early dialogues as follows (my CAPS):

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV
We must assume that philosophical inquiry was the "primum mobile" in the composition of those earlier dialogues, no less than of any he . . . . . (Plato) . . . . was to write thereafter, and that throughout this first phase of his writing Plato remains convinced of the substantial truth of Socrates' teaching and of the soundness of his method. But the continuing harmony of the two minds, though vital is not rigid: the father image inspires, guides, and dominates, but does not shackle Plato's philosophical quest.
So when he finds compelling reason to strike out along new paths, he sees no need to sever the personal bond with Socrates. And when these lead him to new, unSocratic and antiSocratic conclusions, AS THEY VISIBLY DO BY THE TIME HE COMES TO WRITE THE MENO, the dramatist's attachment to his protagonist, replicating the man's love for the friend and teacher of his youth, survives the ideological separation. And so, as Plato changes, the philosophical persona of his Socrates is made to change, absorbing the writer's new convictions, arguing for them with the same zest with which Socrates of the previous dialogues had argued for the views the writer had shared with the original of that figure earlier on.
VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV


III-III-III-III-III-III-III-III-III-III-III-III-III-III-III-III-III-III-III
III. LAW SCHOOL
Anthony Rud (1997) writes:

RuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRu
THE DARK SIDE OF THE SOCRATIC LEGEND
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
I shall suggest the importance, though with qualifications, of the dark side of the Socratic spirit by turning to some first-hand accounts of legal pedagogy, and the use of the "Socratic method" in law schools. In spite of Adler's . . . .[see, e.g., Adler (1988)]. . . inroads into the nation's schools, the popular image of Socratic teaching often comes from the so-called "Socratic method" used in law schools. I gleaned insight from colleagues from graduate school who hold the doctoral degree in philosophy and have also studied law.

Many of us have never entered a law class, but we feel that we know what goes on there. We have seen John Houseman's portrayal of Professor Kingsfield in the film and television show, "The Paper Chase." Houseman's depiction of an unforgiving taskmaster asking his often-timid students withering questions is the beginning and the end of legal pedagogy for most of us, and for our perceptions on how Socrates is used in legal teaching. In consulting two colleagues who have experienced legal pedagogy, I was able to deepen my understanding of Socratic legal teaching beyond this popular image.

Peter Suber (1990), professor of philosophy at Earlham College, holds both the PhD and JD degrees from Northwestern University. His description of a law class is truly harrowing:
"Incorrect answers, undue delays in answering, or overt signs of nervousness are punished with sardonic jibes or withering glances. The atmosphere is humiliation; the punishment is humiliation...The consensus among students is that the method is not 'educational' in any traditional sense. It does not help one learn cases or legal reasoning. It is sadistic."

Suber sees ample evidence in the dialogues to think that Socrates behaved similarly. Furthermore, Suber believes that the so-called legal Socratic method is used in different ways in law schools of different levels of prestige. In the most prestigious category, students behave in the "Paper Chase" fashion, reciting the facts and attendant arguments while standing and attempting to answer the professor's questions.
RuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRuRu


And James Rhem (2004), editor of the "National Teaching and Learning Forum,' comments on the law school's Socratic method in his review of Michael Strong's (1996) "The Habit of Thought: From Socratic Seminars to Socratic Practice":

RhRhRhRhRhRhRhRhRhRhRhRhRhRhRhRh
NO PAPER CHASE
Early in my interview with Michael Strong, I shared with him my long-standing disgust with the association of Socratic practice with the kind of student abuse portrayed so well by John Housman as Professor Kingsfield in the 1970s film "The Paper Chase." He laughs. Law schools have been describing this kind of thing as "Socratic" for so long, he says, that we're not likely to get them to give it up. He compares Kingsfield's approach to the violent martial arts versus the more philosophical or "softer" ones: Karate versus Tai Chi. Strong sees Socratic practice as essentially "softer." While some see an aggressive devil's advocate in the Socrates of Plato's Dialogues, Strong sees a playful imp committed to teasing out the implications of thought, to seeing the unseen assumptions and implications of what we say we think. "If the Dialogues were staged, I can imagine Socrates being played either way depending on the passage," says Strong.
RhRhRhRhRhRhRhRhRhRhRhRhRhRhRhRh


Stanford's Rob Reich (1998) in "Confusion about the Socratic Method: Socratic Paradoxes and Contemporary Invocations of Socrates," writes:

RiRiRiRiRiRiRiRiRiRiRiRiRiRiRiRiRiRiRiRi
In the few places where the Socratic method is self-avowedly practiced - some law schools, for example - it has been morphed beyond recognition. The law professor, seated at a lectern with a seating chart, "cold-calls" on students, eliciting factual information and analytical comments on demand. The infamous Professor Kingston of "The Paperchase" fame has become the stereotypical image of the Socratic law school professor. This is the image of the Socratic method that Lani Guinier. . . .[et al. (1997)]. . . . rails against as excessively competitive and ultimately gender-biased in her recent book "Becoming Gentlemen." But, of course, this is a woefully impoverished understanding of the Socratic method, for cold-calling bears no resemblance to Socrates' pedagogical activities in the dialogues.
RiRiRiRiRiRiRiRiRiRiRiRiRiRiRiRiRiRiRiRi

Returning to the Socratic Method of the historical Socrates (SMHS), as advocated by Arons, it should be emphasized that SMHS is not a panacea, but is most useful for finding out what and how students are thinking, guiding them to construct their own understanding of difficult concepts, and for conveying fruitful approaches and reasoning skills [Arons (1997)].

Teachers, to be effective, need to use different approaches (e.g., didactic lectures, coaching, collaborative discussions, and Socratic dialogue) to fit the classroom occasions and diverse natures of their students. Each method has its strengths and weaknesses for each type of student, but in the hands of a *skilled teacher* each can be made to compliment the other methods so as to advance *every* student's learning. A skilled teacher might *lecture* on material that can be rote memorized, *coach* skills such as typing or playing a musical instrument, and use *Socratic dialogue or collaborative discussions* (or some other "interactive engagement" method) to induce students to construct their conceptual understanding of difficult counter-intuitive material such as Newton's Laws. The complementarity of various pedagogical methods is insightfully discussed by David Perkins (1995) in "Smart Schools."


Richard Hake, Emeritus Professor of Physics, Indiana University
24245 Hatteras Street, Woodland Hills, CA 91367
<rrhake@earthlink.net>
<http://www.physics.indiana.edu/~hake>
<http://www.physics.indiana.edu/~sdi>

"If Confucius can serve as the Patron Saint of Chinese education, let me propose Socrates as his equivalent in a Western educational context - a Socrates who is never content with the initial superficial response, but is always probing for finer distinctions, clearer examples, a more profound form of knowing. Our concept of knowledge has changed since classical times, but Socrates has provided us with a timeless educational goal - ever deeper understanding."
Howard Gardner (1989)


REFERENCES [Tiny URL's courtesy <http://tinyurl.com/create.php>.]
Adler, M.J. 1988. "The Paideia Program: An Educational Syllabus." Touchstone Books.

Allen, R. E. 1959. "Anamnesis in Plato's Meno and Phaedo," Review of Metaphysics XIII(1), 165-74.

Arons, A.B. 1973. "Toward wider public understanding of science," Am. J. Phys. 41(6): 769-782; online to subscribers at <http://scitation.aip.org/dbt/dbt.jsp?KEY=AJPIAS&Volume=41&Issue=6>. See also Arons (1993).

Arons, A.B. 1974. "Toward wider public understanding of science: Addendum," Am. J. Phys. 42(2): 157-158; online to subscribers at <http://scitation.aip.org/dbt/dbt.jsp?KEY=AJPIAS&Volume=42&Issue=2>.

Arons, A.B. 1985. "'Critical Thinking' and the Baccalaureate Curriculum," Liberal Education 71(2): 141-157. Reprinted in Arons (1997) as Chapter 13, "Critical Thinking."

Arons, A.B. 1993. "Guiding Insight and Inquiry in the Introductory Physics Laboratory," Phys. Teach. 31(5), 278-282 (1993); online to subscribers at
<http://scitation.aip.org/dbt/dbt.jsp?KEY=PHTEAH&Volume=31&Issue=5>.

Arons, A.B. 1997. "Teaching Introductory Physics." Wiley. Amazon.com information at <http://tinyurl.com/3cqlnf>. Note the "Search inside this book" feature.

Gardner, H. 1989. "The Academic Community Must Not Shun the Debate Over How to Set National Educational Goals," The Chronicle of Higher Education, 8 November.

Guinier, L., M. Fine, & J. Balin 1997. "Becoming Gentlemen: Women, Law School, and Institutional Change" Beacon Press. Amazon.com information at <http://tinyurl.com/2z85zn>. Note the "Look Inside" feature.

Hake, R.R. 1987. "Promoting student crossover to the Newtonian world," Am J. Phys. 55(10): 878-884; online at <http://www.physics.indiana.edu/~hake/PromotingCrossover.pdf> (788 kB).

Hake, R.R. 1991. "My Conversion To The Arons-Advocated Method Of Science Education," Teaching Education 3(2): 109-111; online at <http://www.physics.indiana.edu/~hake/MyConversion.pdf> (12 kB).

Hake, R.R. 1992. "Socratic pedagogy in the introductory physics lab," Phys. Teach. 30: 546-552; updated version (4/27/98) at <http://www.physics.indiana.edu/~sdi/SocPed1.pdf> (88 kB).

Hake, R.R. 1998a. "Interactive-engagement vs traditional methods: A six thousand- student survey of mechanics test data for introductory physics courses," Am. J. Phys. 66: 64-74; online at <http://www.physics.indiana.edu/~sdi/ajpv3i.pdf> (84 kB).

Hake, R.R. 1998b. "Interactive-engagement methods in introductory mechanics courses," online at <http://www.physics.indiana.edu/~sdi/IEM-2b.pdf> (108 kB) - a crucial companion paper to Hake (1998a).

Hake, R.R. 2002. "Socratic Dialogue Inducing Laboratory Workshop," Proceedings of the UNESCO-ASPEN Workshop on Active Learning in Physics, Univ. of Peradeniya, Sri Lanka, 2-4 Dec. 2002; online at
<http://www.physics.indiana.edu/~hake/Hake-SriLanka-SDIb.pdf> (44 kB).

Hake, R.R. 2004a. "Re: Socratic Method Misunderstood," PhysLrnR post of 7 Nov 2004 15:49:04-0800; online at <http://tinyurl.com/24pzkd>. One must subscribe to PhysLnrR to access it archives but that takes only a few minutes by clicking on <http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/physlrnr.html> ,and then clicking on "Join or leave the list (or change settings)." If you're busy, then subscribe using the "NOMAIL" option under "Miscellaneous." Then, as a subscriber, you may access the archives and/or post messages at any time, while receiving NO MAIL from the list!

Hake, R.R. 2004b. "The Arons Advocated Method," submitted to the "American Journal of Physics" on 24 April 2004; online as reference 31 at <http://www.physics.indiana.edu/~hake/AronsAdvMeth-8.pdf> (144 kB).

Hake, R.R. 2007. "Re: Review article on electronic instructional polling?" online at
<http://listserv.nd.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0706&L=pod&O=D&P=11323>. Post of 16 Jun 2007 to AERA-J, AERA-L, ASSESS, EvalTalk, Phys-L, PhysLrnR, POD.

Hestenes, D. 1987. "Toward a modeling theory of physics instruction," Am. J. Phys. 55(5): 440-454; online at <http://modeling.asu.edu/R&E/Research.html>.

Morse, R.A. 1994. "The Classic Method of Mrs. Socrates," Phys. Teach. 32: 276-277, online to subscribers at <http://scitation.aip.org/dbt/dbt.jsp?KEY=PHTEAH&Volume=32&Issue=5>.
Perkins, D. 1995. "Smart Schools." Free Press; Reprint edition; Amazon.com information at <http://tinyurl.com/yptoyq>. Note the "Search Inside" feature.

Phillips, D.C. & J.F. Soltis. 2003. "Perspectives on Learning." Teachers College Press, fourth edition, esp. Chapter 2, "Classical Theories" with regard to Plato. Amazon.com information at <http://tinyurl.com/24zrcb>.

Plato. 380 B.C. "Meno" A translation by Benjamin Jowett is online at <http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/meno.html>, courtesy of the MIT Internet Classics Archive <http://classics.mit.edu/index.html>.

Reich, R. 1998. "Confusion about the Socratic Method: Socratic Paradoxes and Contemporary Invocations of Socrates," in Yearbook of the Philosophy Of Education 1998, online at <http://www.ed.uiuc.edu/eps/pes-yearbook/1998/reich.html>.

Rhem, J. 2004. Review of Strong (1996); National Teaching and Learning Forum (NTLF) 13(6); online to subscribers of NTLF at <http://www.ntlf.com/FTPSite/issues/v13n6/thought.htm>. If your institution doesn't have a subscription, then, in my opinion, it should.

Ross, G.M. 1993. "Socrates versus Plato: the Origins and Development of Socratic Thinking", Aspects of Education 49: 9-22; reprinted in Thinking: The Journal of Philosophy for Children 12/4, 1996, 2-8; online at
<http://www.philosophy.leeds.ac.uk/GMR/homepage/socplat.html>.

Rud, A.G. 1997. "The Use and Abuse of Socrates in Present Day Teaching," Education Policy Analysis Archives 5(20), online at <http://epaa.asu.edu/epaa/v5n20.html>. Rud, as most education specialists (and even most physicists), is evidently unaware of Socratic pedagogy in physics. I thank Gene Glass for informing me of Rud's paper.

Strong, M. 1997. "The Habit of Thought: From Socratic Seminars to Socratic Practice." New View Publications. Amazon.com information at <http://tinyurl.com/2phd3e>. Note the "Look Inside" feature. Strong is primarily concerned with K-12 education.

Tobias, S., & Hake, R. R. 1988. "Professors as physics students: what can they teach us?" Am. J. Phys. 56(9): 786-794, online at <http://www.physics.indiana.edu/~hake/ProfsAsStudents.pdf> (1.1 MB).

Suber, P. 1990. January). Private communication to Anthony Rud.

Vlastos, G. 1990. Private communication to R.R. Hake, September 17.

Vlastos, G. 1991. "Socrates, Ironist and Moral Philosopher." Cornell Univ. Press and Cambridge University Press, esp. Chap. 2, "Socrates contra Socrates in Plato." Cambridge University Press information is at <http://www.cambridge.org/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=9780521314503>:

Vlastos, G. 1994. "Socratic Studies," edited by Myles Burnyeat, Cambridge University Press - information at <http://www.cambridge.org/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=9780521447355>.