Re: [Phys-l] Was, reading PER literature

[Jack Uretsky <jlu@hep.anl.gov>]

Who is this "ruling class" you're referring to.  Can you name some of the 
individuals?
	The topic, insofar as I recall it, is, "what did Goodstein say?"
I've given the quote.  If you want to disagree, then the person to address 
is Goodstein, who, as a Cal Tech Provost, gets a unique view of 
undergraduate education.
	What's the basis of no change "over the past hundred years"?
That's demonstrably untrue, just by comparing textbooks.
					Regards,
						Jack

On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Bernard Cleyet wrote:

> If the teaching methods haven't changed over the last hundred years and
> they produced a plurality of Nobelists, etc.  Why shouldn't that
> continue?  I think those succeeded despite the poor teaching and will
> continue.  Could not the "bad" method be "good" for those?  The
> operative point is the large pop. and superior economy.  However, I'd
> expect the number to remain constant while those societies w/ better
> methods and or larger pops. and or increasing economic status will
> eclipse the US.  I hear the motivation of one sector of the ruling class
> to get out of Viet, I mean Iraq, is so "we" can tackle the real enemy,
> China.   Tough.
>
> Paradox resolved.    I'm curious as to the ratio of some measure(s) of
> scientific excellence WRT pop., GDP/person, etc.  Those above the line
> would be due to "better" teaching?
>
> bc, who may comment further after a read.
>
> Jack Uretsky wrote:
>
> > Hi all-
> > 	I agree with "stopped reading too soon".  The familiar tactic is
> > to trivialize a concern by focussing on an irrelevance; in the classic
> > pathology between spouses, the response to a spousal concern is "you're so
> > beautiful (handsome) when you're angry!" (I've even had this from a class
> > I chewed out for not preparing for a test!).
> > 	The operative comment, from one who should know, was:
> > "The paradox is this: as a lingering result of the golden age, we still
> > have the finest scientists in the world in the United States. But we also
> > have the worst science education in the industrialized world."
> > 	We have met the enemy, Bernard, and it is high time to admit that
> > he is us!
> > 					Reply,
> > 						Jack
> >
> >
> > On Sat, 9 Dec 2006, Bernard Cleyet wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > Comment from only reading the first three (two?) paragraphs.  Like the
> > > famous turn of the cent. (19/20) Physicist, I think he spoke too soon --
> > > since then there has been an explosion, tho minor, in cosmology and
> > > related Physics -- e.g. neutrino mass, and dark energy -- the U. is
> > > accelerating its expansion.  Also in equip., e.g. STM and AFM.
> > >
> > > bc, prob. stopped reading too soon.
> > >
> > > Rauber, Joel wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Is this it
> > > >
> > > > http://www.its.caltech.edu/~dg/crunch_art.html
> > > >
> > > > Regardless, its interesting
> > > >
> > > > ________________________
> > > > Joel Rauber
> > > > Department of Physics - SDSU
> > > >
> > > > Joel.Rauber@sdstate.edu
> > > > 605-688-4293
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > | -----Original Message-----
> > > > | From: phys-l-bounces@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu
> > > > | [mailto:phys-l-bounces@carnot.physics.buffalo.edu] On Behalf
> > > > | Of Jack Uretsky
> > > > | Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 12:41 PM
> > > > | To: Forum for Physics Educators
> > > > | Subject: Re: [Phys-l] Reading PER literature
> > > > |
> > > > | There was a talk (copied on the web) by Goodstein (Cal Tech)
> > > > | pointing out that the US is doing graduate science education
> > > > | for the world, while U.S.
> > > > | students can't make it into our grad schools.  He was
> > > > | deploring the state of US undergard education.  He was
> > > > | certainly knowledgeable about the admissions policies
> > > > | respecting physics grad students at Cal Tech.
> > > > |  				Regards,
> > > > |  					Jack
> > > > |
> > > > | On Wed, 6 Dec 2006, John Clement wrote:
> > > > |
> > > > | > One interpretation is that there is a problem with
> > > > | education in their
> > > > | > countries.  It could be that the prestigious schools there
> > > > | are full,
> > > > | > or the social climate here is alluring.
> > > > | >
> > > > | > As to superiority of American schools, this is often a self
> cut
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