Chronology Current Month Current Thread Current Date
[Year List] [Month List (current year)] [Date Index] [Thread Index] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Date Prev] [Date Next]

[Phys-L] Re: Another attack on Evolution



I live in the same town as the central university of the Seventh Day
Adventists who are young earth fundamentalists. I did indeed once
hear a presentation by a fundamentalist paleontologist....as I recall
he seemed puzzled.

joe

Joseph J. Bellina, Jr. Ph.D.
Professor of Physics
Saint Mary's College
Notre Dame, IN 46556

On Jan 20, 2006, at 7:13 AM, Rick Tarara wrote:

All of which seems to oppose the often stated (maybe even by John)
platitude that "there is no conflict between science and religion--
they deal
with different subjects." There certainly does seem to be a conflict
between scientific thought (or reasoning) and religious thought, at
least at
some levels of religion. That individuals can successfully mix and or
separate the two is problematic, in my view. [A fundamentalist
paleontologist?]

Rick


----- Original Message -----
From: "John Clement" <clement@HAL-PC.ORG>
To: <PHYS-L@LISTS.NAU.EDU>
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 12:41 AM
Subject: Re: Another attack on Evolution


Part of the problem in this debate is about how to label the
people who
wish
to put their religious point of view into the public school
curriculum.
Since they take a very literal point of view in interpreting the
bible,
the
general term is fundamentalist for this type of thinking.
Evangelical is
a
linked term, but is not exactly the same. Evangelicalism appears
in many
of
the churches, but may or may not be linked with a literal
interpretation.

As far as being bigots or bullies, they are trying to protect their
identity
and their children from what they consider to be a godless point
of view.
Many of them also consider anyone who does not adhere to their
point of
view
to be apostate and probably damned. They have not learned the
lesson of
the
Galileo controversy. This particular point of view means that
they feel
impelled to correct the social permissiveness of the school system.
Unfortunately, they do not recognize the rights of the others who
have
different beliefs. For example would they be willing to accept the
teaching
of the new testament in a public school history class with the
"official"
interpretation being opposed to their interpretation.

One thing is quite clear, is that they have not thought the logic
of what
they are trying to do through to its end. If the schools can be
compelled
to teach a biblically literal point of view in science, then the
schools
can
also be compelled to teach an atheistic point of view, a Moslem
point of
view, or even a pantheistic point of view. The only solution is
to have
the
schools be neutral with respect to religion, and to leave science
to the
scientists. If they wish to have a discussion of their ideas in the
schools
then it needs to be in either history or comparative religion
classes, but
again the schools can not take sides, but merely expose the different
points
of view.

Again, we can help this process by using the idea of a model
rather than a
theory, and emphasize that science only looks at mechanisms based on
natural
processes. Also we need to emphasize that religion looks at
different
questions from science, and that science does not take either an
atheistic
point of view, or a religious point of view. But along the way we
need to
oppose any politicians who seek to infuse a particular religious
interpretation into the curriculum. This would include school
boards all
the way up to governors and presidents.

I tend to think that the people who are trying to do this are
morally at
the
concrete operational stage. They have not progressed to the
higher stages
of moral thinking. Piaget studied this, and found that the higher
stages
are characterized by reciprocity rather than thou shalt not. Many
of the
same people will fight for the 10 commandments to be publicly
displayed in
government buildings. The 10 commandments are morally equivalent
to being
in the lower stages of thinking. Yet I have never heard them
fight to
have
the beatitudes posted in these same buildings. The beatitudes are
attributed to Christ and as such should be closer to the basis of
Christianity than the commandments.

Part of the failure of students to progress both cognitively and
morally
is
on our doorstep. The school system generally operates in such a
manner as
to promote rote memorization and obedience to rules rather than to
promote
growth in thinking. The two types of growth may well go hand in
hand.

John M. Clement
Houston, TX

_______________________________________________
Phys-L mailing list
Phys-L@electron.physics.buffalo.edu
https://www.physics.buffalo.edu/mailman/listinfo/phys-l