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[Phys-L] Re: A problem of motion and derivatives



The situation is actually more complex in that there is also no such =
thing
as a rigid body! This means that an applied force has to propagate th=
rough
objects as a compressional wave (speed of sound ?) before a steady st=
ate
is obtained. The bottom line is that you can't expect the simple beha=
vior
we describe in elementary problems to withstand scrutiny in the limit=
of
t -> 0 .

Sorry for the =3D3D infection.

Al Bachman
----- Original Message -----=20
From: ALVIN BACHMAN<mailto:bachman_28@MSN.COM>=20
To: PHYS-L@LISTS.NAU.EDU<mailto:PHYS-L@LISTS.NAU.EDU>=20
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: A problem of motion and derivatives


The situations requiring a discontinuous force or acceleration are =
ex=3D
actly what appears in most textbook problems, and what leads to the=
f=3D
irst question in the original post.

My point was that this does not really occur, but the situation cou=
ld=3D
be modeled with a continuous transition.
For example, f =3D3D (Fo/2)( 1 + Sine((2 pi/T)(t-T/4))) between =
t=3D
=3D3D0 and t=3D3DT/2, with a value of T << duration of the problem,=
eg ~=3D
1 msec. f =3D3D Fo for t>=3D3DT/2 .

Al Bachman

----- Original Message -----=3D20
From: Cherie Lehman<mailto:CBLehman@AOL.COM>=3D20<mailto:CBLehman=
@AOL.COM>=3D20>
To: PHYS-L@LISTS.NAU.EDU<mailto:PHYS-L@LISTS.NAU.EDU>=3D20<mailto=
:PHYS-L@LISTS.NAU.EDU<mailto:PHYS-L@LISTS.NAU.EDU>=3D20>
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: A problem of motion and derivatives


John, I can't think of examples of discontinuous forces aside fro=
m
situations where force is exerted as a series of pulses -- for in=
st=3D
ance force exerted
by a jackhammer or by antilock brakes. However, each individual p=
ul=3D
se would
be continuous.


In a message dated 11/4/2005 5:54:49 P.M. US Eastern Standard Tim=
e,
ajm@CSUPOMONA.EDU<mailto:ajm@CSUPOMONA.EDU<mailto:ajm@CSUPOMONA.E=
DU<mailto:ajm@CSUPOMONA.EDU>> writes:

>For an object with v=3D3D0 and a=3D3D0 at t < 0, the imposition=
of a =3D
constant force
>or acceleration at t=3D3D0 is a discontinuous event. (This inclu=
des =3D
dropping an
>object, where the holding force has to go to zero instanteously=
.)

I think it might be the case that the force on a particle (or th=
e =3D
net
force on a system of particles--i.e., an "object") rarely if eve=
r
really changes discontinuously. I can't think of one. Can anyo=
ne
else?

--
John "Slo" Mallinckrodt

Professor of Physics, Cal Poly Pomona
<http://www.csupomona.edu/~ajm<http://www.csupomona.edu/~ajm<http=
://www.csupomona.edu/~ajm<http://www.csupomona.edu/~ajm>>>

and

Lead Guitarist, Out-Laws of Physics
<http://www.csupomona.edu/~hsleff/OoPs.html<http://www.csupomona.=
ed<http://www.csupomona.edu/~hsleff/OoPs.html<http://www.csupomona.ed=
=3D
u/~hsleff/OoPs.html>>
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