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[Phys-L] Re: god friendly science



I wish that I could say that all my experiences with people of faith
have been "nothing but positive". Unfortunately, having faith does not
guarantee that one is a "good person". I've met many religious people
who are good persons, but I've also met many who are narrow-minded,
ignorant and uncaring.

In reading through the many posts on "god-friendly science", I've come
to the conclusion that what we need is a science-friendly god.

Dr. Mark H. Shapiro
Professor of Physics, Emeritus
California State University, Fullerton
Phone: 714 278-3884
FAX: 714 278-5810
email: mshapiro@fullerton.edu
web: http://chaos.fullerton.edu/Shapiro.html
travel and family pictures:
http://community.webshots.com/user/mhshapiro


-----Original Message-----
From: Forum for Physics Educators [mailto:PHYS-L@list1.ucc.nau.edu] On
Behalf Of John Cockman
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 8:45 AM
To: PHYS-L@LISTS.NAU.EDU
Subject: Re: god friendly science

I am embarrassed by this type of thoughtless attack on religion. My own
experiences with people of faith have been nothing but positive.

John Cockman


Anthony Lapinski wrote:

No matter what you believe, the sad truth is that probably more people
in
the world
have died because of religion than any other factor. Maybe it's a
self-righteous
thing. Remember Carl Sagan, who said, "Extraordinary claims require
extraordinary
evidence."

Forum for Physics Educators <PHYS-L@list1.ucc.nau.edu> on Tuesday, May
24,
2005 at 9:02 AM -0500 wrote:


-----Original Message-----
From: Herb Gottlieb <herbgottlieb@JUNO.COM>
Sent: May 23, 2005 10:07 PM
To: PHYS-L@LISTS.NAU.EDU
Subject: Re: god friendly science

-- Steve Clark <sclarkphd@MINDSPRING.COM> wrote:

Lastly, if the resurrection is not true, then Christianity can't be
either. The whole Christian faith is built on that premise. The
apostle Paul says that Christians are to be the most pitied of all
people if Jesus were not raised from the dead. You can make your
decision, but I think it's true.
-------------------- ------------------- --------------
I am interested in knowing why you think the story is really true.
Is your decision baszed on reasoning, faith, or both.

Thanks

Herb

My decision to accept as true the story of the resurrection has to do
with both faith and reason.

Christianity is different from all other religions in that Christians
teach that man can not do anything to get to God. It is God that must
come to man. No other faith teaches such an upside down idea. All
other
faiths require man to do the good works to please God. So right away
we
see a faith that runs counter to the natural inclination of most
people.
That makes me sit up and take notice.

The examples in the Old Testament that suggests there must be a
sacrifice
to attone for lack of conformity to the moral law that everyone
"knows" -
don't kill, don't steal, etc. The Old Testament points to a final
sacrifice that will ultimately pay the price that we can't pay (see
especially Isaiah 42 & 52).

And then there is the historicity of the New Testament documents. I
know
that some have tried to discredit the gospels as history, but I don't
think they can simply be dismissed. The New Testament documents
present a
compelling history of life in 1st century Isreal, especially of a man
named Jesus who went through the countryside teaching the people.

There is little doubt about the crucifixion of Jesus. So, the only
real
question is did he rise from the dead? It seems unreasonable to think
that a small group of not very brave men would get so fired up about
Jesus if he didn't. And as the movement gained strength, it made a lot
of
people very unhappy - unhappy enough to kill and torture. Reason
suggests
that these people had something remarkable to tell.

Of course, if Jesus really didn't rise, then his body could have
easily
been produced by the Romans and the movement would have stopped right
them. So, the evidence for the historicity of the resurrection seems
pretty solid to me. Of course, there is a certain amount of faith that
must accompany a belief in the resurrection since you can always
choose
not to believe it. And many do. But the Bible tells us that we should
expect that, too.

Steve Clark, Ph.D.





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