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[Phys-L] Re: Pre/post testing



"I for one, obtained a substantive increase in understanding from these
"out of class experience". And I have witnessed such increases in many
of my peers as well as some students."

Your peers have Ph.D.s, also?

"... some students." these are the ones who will continue their education or are already grad. students, I'll bet.


I suspect Joel was a student before computers took the place of auto repair, etc. during which some mechanical experience was possible.




"... it may be an indicator that a large percentage of students are not availing themselves to such "out of class experiences"."


Availing experience is one of my definitions of learning, which is Hake's point. Or perhaps they do too well. Few people, until the attend a Physics class have the experience of Newton's (Galileo's) first law. Hence Aristotle's millennial sway.

bc, (before computers)







RAUBER, JOEL wrote:

1. "Student learning does not occur solely in a class or a set of
classes. It occurs in residence halls, student activities, and
off-campus experiences. It results from previous experiences and
learning."

That any substantive increase in understanding of Newtonian mechanics
occurs "in residence halls, student activities, and off-campus
experiences" is contradicted by the very low average normalized gains
<g> of about 0.2 for students subjected to traditional introductory
physics classes. I suspect that substantive learning in casual non-class
activities is also rare for other subjects that make higher-order
cognitive demands.

As for learning that results from "previous experiences and learning,"
that is precisely what the pretest is meant to determine.

__________________________

I for one, obtained a substantive increase in understanding from these
"out of class experience". And I have witnessed such increases in many
of my peers as well as some students. So I wouldn't be dismissive of
experiences.

I suspect that the low gains quoted above may have a variety of
explanations as related to the above comment. Taken at face value,
which it probably shouldn't be, it may be an indicator that a large
percentage of students are not availing themselves to such "out of class
experiences".

________________________
Joel Rauber
Department of Physics - SDSU

Joel.Rauber@sdstate.edu
605-688-4293



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