[Phys-L] Re: positive feedback loops (was global warming)

[Daryl at DARYLSCIENCE.COM (Daryl L. Taylor)]

Dr. Marx, I'm with ya!

I have yet to see any REAL scientific evidence (ie Physical data...) that
has anything to do with us (Human beans) within the data. I like to look at
the data. ALL the data. Going back a few gazillion years (<65, thank
you...), the geo-physical data I've seen just makes my shoulders shrug and
want to reach for another beverage.

Speaking of which, David, if you have any specific student-oriented research
conclusions from your classes, you had mentioned before that you had your
kids do some serious research on this, I'd love to see them. I'm starting a
semi-serious debate with a few AP students, who are buying into the
media-science of global warming, and would like some ammunition other than,
"Shut up, your grade depends on what I think..."


Daryl L. Taylor, Fizzix Guy
Greenwich HS, CT
PAEMST '96
International Internet Educator of the Year '03
NASA SEU Educator Ambassador
www.DarylScience.com

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-----Original Message-----
From: Forum for Physics Educators [mailto:PHYS-L@list1.ucc.nau.edu]On
Behalf Of David T. Marx
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 10:10 AM
To: PHYS-L@LISTS.NAU.EDU
Subject: Re: positive feedback loops (was global warming)


The answer is that no one knows.  The models that do include feedback make
it a positive one and
thus get the scariest results, as you suggest.  The chemistry of epoxy resin
is much easier to
understand than the complex system that is the Earth's climate, however.

This morning, while walking through a nearby supermarket, I happened upon
Michael Crichton's book
"State of Fear" that started this thread.  The points he makes in his
personal epilogue are right
on target.  He and I are very much in agreement on the present situation and
future of global
warming.  There is no axe to grind, just an honest assessment of the science
of climate change.

Take care,
David Marx

> As one who has witnessed firsthand a rather striking
> thermal positive feedback loop (by accidentally adding
> way too much hardener to epoxy resin), I wonder
> whether any of the models which relate atmospheric
> temperature increase to human activity postulate this
> sort of behavior. If there is a strong possibility
> that such a feedback situation could/does exist, then
> it seems very dangerous indeed to wait for solid
> proof. Once the temperature of the resin mix starts
> its rapid rise, smoke very quickly follows.
>
> OTOH, if most atmospheric scientists & climatologists
> believe that the feedback loop(s) are or will be
> negative (or neutral) in nature, then we can well
> afford to wait.
>
> John Barrere  University HS  Fresno, CA