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Re: Math and Physics Teacher partnership?



Joel & Jack;

Joel, thanks for letting me come up for air. By the responses I've received
off-list, I've apparently performed some hideous unprofessional act that
deserves my immediate self-punishment to atone for my educational sins.
Maybe tonight I'll drink some BAD beer as punishment...

Jack, all I said, and I'll repeat, is to "teach physics"! That's my job! As
I clearly stated, I will do everything I can to help a kid. If that includes
tutoring him/her on the intricacies of Algebra I so he/she can grasp the
nuances of Physics a little better, fine! But NEVER during class. Stop in
before school, after school, during my 20 minute lunch period. Heck, I'll
even carry on a chat while walking quickly to the potty. (Maybe not
coherently, but...) It is my belief, thru 28 years of mediocre class room
combat, that as soon as you take class time away from your prime focus to
"fill in the blanks" of some student's shortcomings, you've lost the game.
We have to start realizing that the kids do not dictate the pace of the
course, WE do. As Bernard states, "The vast majority of students have too
little life experience to know
what they want and what is necessary, and parents too ignorant or otherwise
unwilling to give direction." I have squelched many students from causing
digressions into realms of Math, History, Science Fiction. Don't get me
wrong, digressions are good. However, constant digressions by a Physics
Instructor to catch up Math skills defeats the purpose of being in Physics.
In fact, just today I reminded all my classes that if they still have
difficulty solving vector triangles, get help NOW, because we will be using
them all year. I won't teach it again. I will help kids who come in for
added help. But, no more class time for it. They are now expected to
demonstrate mastery.

Now, to answer Joel's question directly. It's actually quite simple. I make
sure I teach at schools where the Great Muck-A-Mucks keep their grubby
little mits off me and out of my classroom. I've always settled into
districts where the teacher is the one in charge and the administration is
there to help you attain your goals and help the kids. Gosh, what a novel
idea! I've been lucky enough to land in 3 of these "Utopias". (Or is that
Utopii?) All 3 schools (Delran NJ, Williamstown NJ, and Greenwich CT) had
administrations that trusted their teachers to get the job done. I doubt if
I'd get alot of grief from the membership if I state that an Administration
that dictates how and what to teach is a dangerous administration. I do the
job by concentrating on THAT job, and not others. If the Administration
interferes in what I would consider a detrimental way, I leave. I know
that's a luxury not many have, but I think more of us can use it.

At my current school, Greenwich CT, my immediate supers are all gung-ho on a
no-nonsense approach to standards. "Here are the Physics standards, do what
you can to meet them." Being in my 1st year here, I'm trying to reach out to
the Math Dept so we can correlate our specific needs in our classrooms. ie
Teaching Trig functions at the beginning of the year so I can use them all
year in Physics and we Physics Guys and Gals providing the Math Dept with
some concrete examples of where and when all that Math is actually used.

So, I have no conflicts, Jack.


Daryl L. Taylor, Fizzix Guy
Greenwich HS, CT
PAEMST '96
International Internet Educator of the Year '03
NASA SEU Educator Ambassador
www.DarylScience.com

This email prepared and transmitted using 100% recycled electrons!



-----Original Message-----
From: Forum for Physics Educators [mailto:PHYS-L@list1.ucc.nau.edu]On
Behalf Of RAUBER, JOEL
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 1:44 PM
To: PHYS-L@LISTS.NAU.EDU
Subject: Re: Math and Physics Teacher partnership?


Daryl,

I won't echo what others have said, however, it strikes me that you must
have unusual bosses in the first couple of rungs above you in the
hierarchy. Could you tell us more about their reaction to your
admirable, IMO, adherence to standards?

PS, have a few more beers anyway :-)

I'm of the opinion that physics first has been occuring all along in
many places. We called it 9th grade physical science at my high school.

________________________
Joel Rauber
Department of Physics - SDSU

Joel.Rauber@sdstate.edu
605-688-4293



| -----Original Message-----
| From: Forum for Physics Educators
| [mailto:PHYS-L@list1.ucc.nau.edu] On Behalf Of Daryl L. Taylor
| Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 7:02 PM
| To: PHYS-L@LISTS.NAU.EDU
| Subject: Re: Math and Physics Teacher partnership?
|
|
| It's been a long day. It's been a longer week. Please forgive
| me if I attack the 'physics first' statement Scott ends with.
|
| This '...I spend 30% of my curriculum time teaching and
| reteaching algebra...' is a touchy topic to most physics
| teachers, let alone the Math teachers, I've bumped into
| across the country. When and where do we end 'math' and where
| and when do we begin 'physics'. My answer is simple. Teach
| physics. Not Math. If the kids can't handle the Math needed,
| it's on them. PERIOD.
|
| I have degrees in both Physics and Math. (Got Math 1st, by
| the by... Moved into Physics because I could finally see
| where all that Math was going...) Have taught both Math and
| Physics. 28 years. So, before the gripes start, I've been
| there and done 'that'. Hopefully, the best 'that' that could
| be done. At least by me.
|
| As Physics teachers/professors, our job is simply to teach
| physics. It would be nice if we had the time and resources to
| teach everything, but ain't happnin'. I see very little
| argument there. If an Honors Physics 11th grade student walks
| into my classroom and can't handle the Algebra II or Trig I
| that is required to do the basic vector analysis at the
| beginning of the course, sorry. See you later. By the same
| token, if an AP 12th grader walks in and can't handle the
| basic Calculus, sorry. I will always help a kid who is
| deficient in the maths and/or point him/her in the direction
| of a good Math teacher who can help. However, if I take time
| out of my tight Physics schedule to teach something that is a
| basic needed pre-requisite, I'm defeating myself and, worse, the kids!
|
| Would you take time out of your Physics curriculum to teach a
| student to read the text? To use the Internet for assistance?
| I think not. We all do that on our OWN time anyway. You would
| do all these outside of class, but would NOT take class time
| away from all the others. Why do it for Math. If the student
| isn't prepared for the math necessary for a successful
| physics understanding, why hold back others by wasting their
| time? And, yes, I typed and meant 'wasting'.
|
| I'm sure this is coming across as callous and/or uncaring.
| Sigh... In a perfect world, like Seti Alpha V, ALL students
| would be totally prepared and eager to consume our
| experiences. This is the Planet Earth. They aren't. We can't.
| I see this as a 'made-up' dilemma. Too many students who
| aren't prepared to learn are suddenly slammed into that
| 'Physics Wall'. All of a sudden, it's our fault. I don't buy it.
|
| And as for 'Physics First'? Geez! I need a few more beers
| before I tackle that mess again...
|
| Teach Physics.
|
| Daryl L. Taylor, Fizzix Guy
| Greenwich HS, CT