Re: Pedagogy

["Fernanda Foertter [Advanced Physics Forums]" <admin@ADVANCEDPHYSICS.ORG>]

I don't see how you can doubt my passion for physics based on what I've told
you.

Physics is a blood sport?  There you go...speaking of the same elitism I so
despise.  Either you make it or get out.  I'm glad you are one of the lucky
ones that made it...but I wonder if you were to look in your life
achievements and find areas where you didn't make it and wish someone just
took a little extra to help you...

I'm sure you can find an area in your life you love but just couldn't make
it...

I'd hate to be in your class, because you are exactly the sort of
unapproachable professor I so despise.  I wonder if your students fell the
same...

Fernie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob LaMontagne" <rlamont@POSTOFFICE.PROVIDENCE.EDU>
To: <PHYS-L@lists.nau.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: Pedagogy


> If your not the type who would spend three days holed up in
> your dorm room because you just HAD to work out a physics
> problem simply because you wanted to understand it, not
> only would I consider changing schools, I would consider
> another discipline. College is a very uneven experience.
> The main thing that it has to offer is time off for four
> years from the real world of having a job - and a chance to
> spend that time learning and challenging yourself. It's
> nice to have a gifted teacher in a course, but what you get
> out of it is directly related to what you put in.
>
> Most of what I read in Fernanda's diatribe was a
> regurgitation of the nonsense promoted by Sheila Tobias in
> her book "They're not dumb, they're different", where she's
> looking for a kindler, gentler physics. Physics is a blood
> sport. It progresses because we all jump on any new idea
> and tear it apart to find flaws. We do it to the ideas of
> the colleagues in out own departments. We do it on lists
> like this. We do it because we want to understand. If you
> don't have that passion, what's the point?
>
> Bob at PC
>
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>
> On 4/30/2004 at 1:43 PM Fernanda Foertter [Advanced Physics
> Forums] wrote:
>
> > while I agree with you in some respect of "active
> learning", how much of
> > the
> > material should I be forced to learn on my own and then be
> tested on it?
> > Afterall, if I can learn on my own Physics, then why am I
> here?  Cause if
> > I'm here to learn on my own, then I'm basically using the
> university for a
> > stamp of aproval...but am I not going to a learning
> institution?  If I
> > wanted a certificate, then why not just make a generic
> exam for that
> > certificate?
> >
> > Fernie
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Karl I. Trappe" <trappe@PHYSICS.UTEXAS.EDU>
> > To: <PHYS-L@lists.nau.edu>
> > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 6:37 AM
> > Subject: Re: Pedagogy
> >
> >
> > > Fernanda Foertter writes:
> > >
> > > >  Basically, if you can't
> > > > learn on your own, you shouldn't be here.
> > >
> > >
> > > Fernanda:  While I sympathize with most of what you said
> (and even
> > > registered the same complaints when I was taking
> physics), I would
> > > like you to consider your own responsibility for your
> education.
> > > In particular, passive learning is not to be confused
> with getting an
> > > education.  In a cliche:  'You never get out of
> something more than
> > > you put into it."
> > >
> > > There are studies which show the relative percent of
> learning from
> > > various teaching styles and student participation
> styles.  We hear a
> > > lot from PER about the demise of the lecture as an
> archaic and nearly
> > > worthless approach to student mastery.
> > >
> > > The information retention scale goes something like:
> 5-10% retention
> > > from passive listening (the lecture) all the way to as
> much as 90%
> > > retention when you know that you will have to present
> the material
> > > yourself.  These figures are recollected from a talk
> (from the
> > > business side of campus) about getting sales people to
> master their
> > > product information).  Its not totally unrelated.  If
> you are
> > > "learning it on your own", you probably are actually
> learning it!
> > > Another interesting tidbit I picked up along the way is
> "Pop quizzes
> > > *burn information* into the mind of the participant."
> It seems that
> > > forced recognition that you *do not know* the material
> causes the
> > > student to strongly reinforce those bits of
> information...by *active*
> > > participation in that bit of information digestion.
> > >
> > > Karl
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dr. Karl I. Trappe, Physicist
> > > KIT Science