Re: SN1987A in Support of Tachyon Neutrinos (fwd)

[Robert B Zannelli <Spinoza321@AOL.COM>]

In a message dated 5/25/2003 2:34:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
jlu@HEP.ANL.GOV writes:

> Early neutrinos from a supernova event are more likely to be just
> that; neutrinos that got out during the first stages.  The main burst of
> neutrinos takes a very long time to plough through the dense material that
> collapses onto the center of the star, and then there are bounces.  The
> burst cannot be detected optically for a while because the light takes
> even longer to escape

I will repost the section of my original post with deals directly with this 
question. Hopefully this may be clarifying.

                                                  SN1987A 


  SN1987A is the name of a supernova event detected in 1987. This event is 
believed to have occurred approximately 170000 light years from earth. At 
several neutrino observatories detectors were able to measure neutrino interactions 
believed to be a result of neutrinos emitted by this supernova. 

        IMB found 8 events within 5.58 seconds with energy levels between 
19mev and 39mev. 

         K2 found 11 events within 12.439 seconds between 6.3 mev and 
35.4mev. 

        Bakun found 5 events between 12mev and 23.3 mev. 

    All these events are believed to have occurred within 15 seconds, thought 
synchronization uncertainties may extend this time to about one minute. 

  Supernova models predict that the emission of visible light follows the 
neutrino burst after a few hours. By reconstructing when the visible light was 
observed it can be determined that the neutrino events were observed between 2 
and 3 hours before the supernova was detected by observation of the visible 
effects. This accords well with supernova models. 
   However this is not the whole story. Five neutrino events were observed at 
the LSD neutrino observatory at Mount Blanc within 7 seconds at energy levels 
between 5.8 and 7.8 Mev. These events were observed 4 hours and 43 minutes 
BEFORE the events recorded at IMB, K2 and Bakun. In addition one event was 
recorded at K2 4 hours and 43 minutes before the events recorded earlier at IMB and 
Bakun.  Also it should be noted that the LSD observatory detected two events 
at the IMB and K2 times between 7 and 9 mev within an interval of 13 seconds. 
How can these very early events be explained? A closer look at the physics of 
neutrinos is required. 
  The electron, muon and tau neutrinos are eigenstates of the weak 
interaction. These weak eigenstates are linear combinations of the mass eigenstates. 

                                  v_f=SUM[U_fm*v_i]

Each mass eigenstate has its own momentum. These leads to different speeds 
for the mass eigenstates and hence to their eventual separation after long 
distances and time of flight. This puts these mass eigenstates into a region of non 
oscillation. Now if Neutrinos are truly tachyons then their velocities behave 
inversely from tardyons as a function of energy and rest mass. 

               v_tach=c*sqrt(1+(E_0/E)^2)

Therefore low energy tachyons and heavy tachyons travel at a higher velocity 
than light or high energy tachyons. Looking at the neutrino detection data we 
can make the following assumptions.

           1) All the SN1987A neutrinos were emitted in a few seconds.

           2) The faster Superluminal mass eigenstates of all neutrinos 
reached the earth about 4 hours and 43 minutes before the slower superluminal mass 
eigenstates. 

          3) LSD and K2 (one event) detected the faster superluminal mass 
eigenstates. 

   The mass eigenstates m_1 is thought to be associated with the electron 
neutrino flavor while M_2 is thought to be associated with the muon neutrino 
flavor. Finally M_3 is believed associated with the Tau neutrino flavor. If one 
uses the experimentally determined mass values measures in tritium decays 
-27(ev^2) and using the energy levels observed at the later neutrino events at IMB. 
K2, and Bakun than the travel times are in close agreement with the observed 
neutrino events. If the assumption is made that the earlier neutrino events 
were the detection of the M_2 or m_3 mass eigenstates then calculations give a 
value averaged at -541(ev^2). This value is not excluded for the muon neutrino 
mass values measured in muon decay experiments. No information is available 
concerning the tau neutrino mass values. 
    Therefore it seems reasonable to conclude that the neutrino detection 
events observed from SN1987A are supportive of the idea that neutrinos are 
tachyons.   



Bob Zannelli