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Re: SN1987A in Support of Tachyon Neutrinos (fwd)

I've clipped part of the original message

--
"What did Barrow's lectures contain? Bourbaki writes with some
scorn that in his book in a hundred pages of the text there are about 180
drawings. (Concerning Bourbaki's books it can be said that in a thousand
pages there is not one drawing, and it is not at all clear which is
worse.)"
V. I. Arnol'd in
Huygens & Barrow, Newton & Hooke

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 20:19:18 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jack Uretsky <jlu@hep.anl.gov>
To: Forum for Physics Educators <PHYS-L@lists.nau.edu>
Subject: Re: SN1987A in Support of Tachyon Neutrinos
In-Reply-To: <0HFE000QHQLSYG@mailgate1.nau.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0305241959540.5743-100000@theory.hep.anl.gov>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I object to the: "Even more surprising, experiments to=
measure=20
directly the mass of these particles, using the endpoint energy spect=
rums=20
observed in weak force decays has provided persistent evidence that t=
hese=20
particles have negative mass squared values."

The evidence I am aware of is the tritium beta-decay end-point
uncertainty, which overlaps the negative mass squated region. The
uncertainty is large; after all, the mass-squared differences are no measured to be of
the order of 10^{-5} eV, so if 1 neutrino is massless, or nearly so, the
beta-deecay end point uncertainty is huge in comparison.
I have just checked the LSD web-site, and I don't see any claim
for the data you are discussing. Where are these data reported?
Early neutrinos from a supernova event are more likely to be just
that; neutrinos that got out during the first stages. The main burst of
neutrinos takes a very long time to plough through the dense material that
collapses onto the center of the star, and then there are bounces. The
burst cannot be detected optically for a while because the light takes
even longer to escape.
If someone is making a serious claim for evidence of superluminal
particles I would expect it to be submitted to the ArXiV. Do you have a
citation?





On Sat, 24 May 2003, Robert B Zannelli wrote:

This was posted on another list where this topic in under discussion.=
I felt=20
it might be appropriate to post this on the PHYS_L list. I apologize =
for it's=20
tutorial nature. I hope list members find this interesting.=20

In Einstein's theory of Special Relativity, there are three possible=
=20
kinematic states for particles. =A0 These three classifications of pa=
rticles are=20
commonly called, Tardyons, Luxons and Tachyons.=20> =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 1) Tardyons are particles whose rest m=
ass squared is positive.=20
Their velocities are required to always be less than c, the velocity =
of light in=20
a vacuum.=20
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 2) Luxons are particles whose rest mas=
s squared is zero. These=20
particles must always travel at the speed of light.=20
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 3) Tachyons, whose rest mass square=
d is negative. They are=20
required by Special Relativity to always travel at velocities greater=
than c.=20
=A0=A0 In the standard model Quarks and electrically charged leptons,=
as well as=20
the heavy bosons (the W and Z bosons) are known to be tardyons. The o=
ther=20
force carrying particles, the photon, the color charged gluons, and t=
he=20
hypothetical graviton are Luxons. Until very recently the neutrinos, =
the non=20
electrically charged leptons were thought to be Luxons also. However =
recent observations=20
of neutrino flavor oscillations have indicated that at least two of t=
he three=20
neutrino flavors are not Luxons. Even more surprising, experiments to=
measure=20
directly the mass of these particles, using the endpoint energy spect=
rums=20
observed in weak force decays has provided persistent evidence that t=
hese=20
particles have negative mass squared values.=20
=A0=A0=A0 For most Physicist these results are greeted with skepticis=
m. =A0 These=20
measurements are difficult and are open to systematic errors which ar=
e the plague=20
____________________________________clip____________________________

--
"What did Barrow's lectures contain? Bourbaki writes with some
scorn that in his book in a hundred pages of the text there are about 180
drawings. (Concerning Bourbaki's books it can be said that in a thousand
pages there is not one drawing, and it is not at all clear which is
worse.)"
V. I. Arnol'd in
Huygens & Barrow, Newton & Hooke