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Re: Shortage of effective science/math teachers (was Shortage of qualified physics teachers)



In his Phys-L post of 17 Feb 2003 18:11:41-0500, titled "Re: Shortage
of effective science/math teachers" Herb Gottlieb wrote (triple
asterisks *** precede his questions or comments on parts of my post
that are preceded by angle brackets >):

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In Hake (2002a,b)
*** What and where is this reference?

Scroll down to the end of the post to the heading "REFERENCES" to find:

Hake, R.R. 2002a. "Physics First: Opening Battle in the War on
Science/Math Illiteracy?" Submitted to the American Journal of
Physics on 27 June 2002; online as ref. 20 at
<http://www.physics.indiana.edu/~hake/>. Contains cartoon versions of
Lederman's 9th grade physics cliff and Ford's K-12 science/math ramp.
See also Hake (2002b).

Hake, R.R. 2002b. "Physics First: Precursor to Science/Math Literacy
for All?" Summer 2002 issue of the American Physical Society "Forum
on Education Newsletter" Summer 2002; online at
<http://www.aps.org/units/fed/summer2002/hake.html> and as ref. 19 at
<http://www.physics.indiana.edu/~hake/>.

Then simply click on the above URL's to either download the
references or bring up pages where downloads may be made.


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Hake (2002a) - except for Hake (1998; 2000a,b; 2002a,b,c,d,e) that
are given under REFERENCES in this post]:
*** Where are these references?

Exactly as indicated, under the heading "REFERENCES" in that post.


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(5) The dearth of effective P (Preschool) - 12 science/math teachers
*** Preschool science and math teachers???

Yes! Ever hear of Maria Montessori?


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. . . [See e.g., Hake 2002e]
*** Please send copies of the above reference.

Please send it to yourself by simply scrolling to the heading "REFERENCES," to

a. find
Hake, R.R. 2002e. "Whence Do We Get the Teachers (Response to
Madison)". PKAL Roundtable on the Future: "Assessment in the Service
of Student Learning, Duke University, March 1-3; updated on 6/17/02;
online as ref. 16 at <http://www.physics.indiana.edu/~hake/>,

b. click on the above URL,

c. Download the pdf at ref. 16.


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1. MOTIVATE UNIVERSITIES
*** What kind of motivations are you suggesting???

It's my experience that (usually) only $$ and enhanced prestige will
motivate universities. If foundations, government, or donors give $$
and enhanced prestige to universities to do X, then (and only then)
is there a chance that they will do X.


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a. Adequately educate
*** Please explain "adequately educate" in greater detail

How can a discussion list post go into greater detail? I give the
references so that subscribers can dig out the details for themselves
if they're interested; see e.g. [NSF (1996., 1999a,b); AAAS
(1997f,g); Joint Physics Societies (1999); AAPT (2000); APS (2001);
Hake (2002c, Lesson 12h; 2000a,b). All those references are in Hake
(2002a) under the REFERENCES in the post you (Gottlieb) are
questioning.


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increasingly, the higher education community
*** What constitutes the "higher education community" Is this a formal
or informal organization???

OK, I'll play it straight. I'm using "community" in sense #1 of
"Webster's 3rd International Dictionary - Unabridged": "a body of
individuals organized into a unit or manifesting usually with
awareness some unifying trait."

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the fact that teachers and principals in the K- 12 system are all
people who have been educated at the undergraduate level
*** I believe that this is somewhat incorrect. Almost all of the k-12
teachers and principals that I have met have all been educated at the
graduate level.


The NSF (1996) Advisory Committee is NOT claiming that teachers and
principals in the K- 12 system are all people who have been educated
ONLY at the undergraduate level. Those who were educated at the
graduate level were also most probably also educated at the
undergraduate level.


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b. Vigorously pursue R & D
*** Please give further details or suggest practical ways to carry on
this vigorous pursuit

See e.g., Shavelson & Towne (2000) and Ziman (2000). [Herb this
referencing means that you need to scroll down to the heading
REFERENCES in this post as is standard in academic work (as you well
know).


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Wilson & Daviss (1994); AAAS (1993, Chapter 15; 1997g); Redish (1999); NRC
(1999);
*** Please give all references at the end of your article.

That would be unnecessary and a waste of hard-drive space. As stated
at the start of the post:
"In Hake (2002a,b) I list five important roadblocks to science/math
literacy of the general population [for all the references below see
Hake (2002a) - except for Hake (1998; 2000a,b; 2002a,b,c,d,e) that
are given under REFERENCES in this post]."

So to see the references simply:

a. go to
Hake, R.R. 2002a. "Physics First: Opening Battle in the War on
Science/Math Illiteracy?" Submitted to the American Journal of
Physics on 27 June 2002; online as ref. 20 at
<http://www.physics.indiana.edu/~hake/>,

b. click on the above URL,

c. download the pdf at ref. 20 to see the references.


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implementation of effective methods of instruction [Reif (1974);
Wilson & Daviss (1994); AAAS (1993, Chapter 15; 1997g); Redish (1999); NRC
(1999);
*** Please give all references at the end of your article.
Placing them here and repeating them several times makes it
a bit difficult to read and scan your thoughts.

For the nth time, I DO give ALL the complete references at the end of
the article. You must scroll down to the heading REFERENCES to see
them.


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THE INNER CITIES (Kozol 1992)].
*** To upgrade salaries, additional taxes must be levied. How can
this be done at this time? Many homeowners are already financilly
strapped and find it difficult to pay the existing high taxes

Additional taxes must be levied, IF such a large share of national
resources is spent on preparing for war and reducing taxes.

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Heller suggests that teachers be paid at least as much as
mechanical >engineers.
*** How much pay do mechanical engineers earn?

Heller (2001) doesn't give information on the absolute value of
mechanical engineers salaries because he only needs an estimate of
the DIFFERENCE between the median mechanical engineers' and teachers'
salaries to make a Fermi estimate of the total cost of his plan to
elevate teachers salaries so as to make them commensurate with those
of engineers (about 450 billion dollars over 10 years - see Hake
2002; Lesson 12h).

Heller states (my CAPS):

"To begin the market iteration process, one needs to determine THE
SALARY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MECHANICAL ENGINEERS AND TEACHERS. Then one
can determine if the country can afford the salary adjustment.
Instead of looking up the detailed statistics, let's approach this as
a "Fermi problem". Salary levels are determined by local conditions
for both teachers and mechanical engineers. THE MEDIAN MECHANICAL
ENGINEERING SALARY IN 1996 WAS ABOUT $20,000 HIGHER THAN THE MEDIAN
TEACHER SALARY IN 1998. . . . ."

Richard Hake, Emeritus Professor of Physics, Indiana University
24245 Hatteras Street, Woodland Hills, CA 91367
<rrhake@earthlink.net>
<http://www.physics.indiana.edu/~hake>
<http://www.physics.indiana.edu/~sdi>


REFERENCES
Hake, R.R. 2002. "Lessons from the physics education reform effort."
Conservation Ecology 5(2): 28; online at
<http://www.consecol.org/vol5/iss2/art28>.

Heller, K.J. 2001. "The time has come to make teaching a real
profession." Spring 2001 issue of APS "Forum on Education Newsletter"
<http://www.aps.org/units/fed/spring2001/heller.html>.

Heller, K.J. "The Time Has Come to Make Teaching a Real Profession,
APS Forum on Education
<http://www.aps.org/units/fed/spring2001/heller.html>

Shavelson, R.J. & L. Towne, eds. 2002. "Scientific Research in
Education," National Academy Press; online at
<http://www.nap.edu/catalog/10236.html>. "The Committee argued that
all the sciences, including scientific educational research, shared a
set of epistemological or fundamental guiding principles, and that
all scientific endeavors should:
(a) pose significant questions that can be investigated empirically,
(b) link research to relevant theory,
(c) use methods that permit direct investigation of the questions,
(d) provide a coherent and explicit chain of reasoning,
(e) attempt to yield findings that replicate and generalize across studies, and
(f) disclose research data and methods to enable and encourage
professional scrutiny and critique."

Ziman, J. 2000. "Real Science: What it is, and what it means."
Cambridge University Press