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Re: "non-transfer" of energy



Bernard Cleyet wrote:

I don't call PE and KE, for example, the same thing.

I don't call them the same thing either.
But I call them both energy.

You might say a Mitsubishi 3000GT is not the same
thing as a Dodge Stealth. But they're both cars.
And they have many, many, many essential properties
in common.

-- Sometimes "splitting" is appropriate, making many
distinctions and sub-distinctions.
-- Sometimes "chunking" is appropriate, combining
many things into groups and super-groups.

Is a spin-up neutron different from a spin-down
neutron? Sometimes it's helpful to say yes,
sometimes not.

Is a neutron the same thing as a proton, with
just a difference in isospin? Sometimes it's
appropriate to say yes, sometimes not.

I never said that KE flows. I never said that
PE flows. But I did say that energy flows.
Can you appreciate the difference?

Perhaps this sheds some light on one of the
reasons why the all-too-common "W+Q" formulation
of thermodynamics causes trouble: It's at the
wrong level of chunking. There are lots of
things you can say about E and S that you
would like to say about W and Q but you can't.
(This is not the only source of trouble, but
it contributes to the trouble.)

E=KE+PE is perhaps the world's simplest example of
an emergent property: the whole has a property
that is not a property of any of its parts.
Energy as a whole has a conservation property
that is not separately posessed by KE or PE or
thermal energy or any of the other sub-categories
of energy.

Hofstadter has some amusing things to say
about splitting and chunking and emergent
properties. I recommend his book as being
readable and well thought out.

http://www.psych.indiana.edu/people/homepages/hofstadter.html

This posting is the position of the writer, not that of Gödel, Escher,
or Bach.

This posting is the position of the writer, not that of SUNY-BSC, NAU or the AAPT.