Re: reifying energy

["Paul O. Johnson" <pojhome@SWBELL.NET>]

But their drift velocity will increase only with an increase in E field strength
in the copper which depends on the potential difference applied to the wire.
An effective PD of 120 volts will create a constant effective drift velocity.
So I say again, the amount of energy you derive from the power line depends
on the number of electrons that are vibrating.

poj

Brian Whatcott wrote:
> Actually not.
>
> The way that the number of electrons increases across some plane
>   [in some time increment] is by increasing their drift velocity - in my
> (always considered) view.
> I take it that the number of mobile charge carriers in the usual course
> of events is a function of the material, its state, and its cumulative
> volume for any reasonable electric field strength - i.e reasonably
> constant.
>
> Brian
>
> At 01:34 PM 5/9/02, you wrote:
> > Imagine a swarm of electrons vibrating in a copper wire, Brian. There are
> > two ways that the number of electrons passing a given reference plane in a
> > half cycle can increase: either the number of electrons in the swarm
> > increases or the wavelength of the vibration increases. Since the vibrationn
> > frequency remains fixed at 60 Hz, the wavelength of a vibration also stays
> > fixed. Therefore, the number of electrons vibrating must increase.
> >
> > poj
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Brian Whatcott" <inet@INTELLISYS.NET>
> > To: <PHYS-L@lists.nau.edu>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 11:44 AM
> > Subject: Re: reifying energy
> >
> >
> > > It is either a discussion gambit or a nit-pick I realise,
> > > but the number of electrons that vibrate is not material,
> > > but rather the number of electrons that pass a reference
> > > plane.
> > >
> > > Brian
> > >
> > >
> > > At 08:32 AM 5/9/02, you wrote:
> > > > I think we're paying for (1) the potential difference that the utility
> > > > company maintains across the wires at our meter (same price for everyone)
> > > > and (2) the number of electrons residing in our household wiring that
> > > > vibrate back and forth at 60 Hz (price depends on number of electrons
> > > >         
> > >         
> > made
> > > > to vibrate by the loads we switch on).
> > > >
> > > > poj
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Larry Smith" <larry.smith@SNOW.EDU>
> > > > To: <PHYS-L@lists.nau.edu>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 10:36 PM
> > > > Subject: reifying energy
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Jim, Re: reifying energy,
> > > > >
> > > > > What am I paying my utility company for?  What do they give me in
> > > > >               
> > > >               
> > >               
> > exchange
> > > > > for my money?  I'm not buying electrons (which are real?).  Am I
> > > > >                     
> > > >                     
> > >                     
> > buying
> > > > > energy (which is not real?)?  If energy is a property of objects can I
> > > > >                           
> > > >                           
> > >                           
> > buy
> > > > > the property without buying the object?  Is this like a diaper service
> > > > > where I'm buying not diapers but cleanliness?
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > Larry
> > > > >                                 
> > > >                                 
> > > Brian Whatcott
> > >    Altus OK                      Eureka!
> > >                                 
> >                                 
>
> Brian Whatcott
>    Altus OK                      Eureka!
>
>