energy and "debate"

[William Beaty <billb@ESKIMO.COM>]

On Mon, 17 Sep 2001, Daniel L. MacIsaac wrote:

> I frequently change my mind when presented with well-reasoned argument
> supported with valid data.

The above is a central issue of any debate: solid arguments cause us to
abandon our positions (perhaps to regroup and counterattack, or perhaps to
see the light and take on our opponent's view.)

One very irritating feature of the "energy cannot flow" debate is that the
above is not happening:  refuted ideas are presented again and again and
again.  Why?



For example, here is a refuted idea which has reappeared on phys-L over
and over and over:

    Energy is just a property, like "blue" is just a property.
    There is no such thing as a "flow of blue."

But this above argument is wrong, and this has been pointed out
repeatedly.  Energy is a conserved property, and "blue" is not.  We can
create "blue" without taking any "blue" from an adjacent spot, but the
same is not true of energy.  To remove energy from inside a closed
surface, energy must *flow* through that surface, but to remove "blue"
from inside a closed surface, we can simply destroy the "blue".  Because
"blue" is not a conserved property, "a flow of blue" is silly.  In
order to change, conserved properties *must* flow, while non-conserved
properties do not.

If I was arguing that energy cannot flow, I would be forced to give up the
"blue" argument forever.  Then I would regroup and counterattack.  One way
to do so would be to pick some other property besides "blue," a conserved
property such as charge or mass.  I'd say:

  Energy is just a property like charge is just a property.
  There is no such thing as a "flow of charge."

Or failing that, I'd give up the "flow of property" argument entirely, and
fall back on far more powerful arguments.

Others here get hot under the collar about energy, and perhaps they have
the same problem as I:  arguments which have been defeated are used again
and again.  It's not rational debate anymore.  We become trapped inside of
some kind of bad Monty Python sketch.


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