Re: a belief equal to that of astrology

[Pat Keeney <patk@TOAD.NET>]

With all sincere respect

I enjoy this and other listserves because they help to improve me as a
professional and as a person.  Although this is a general forum, I sense
that this is getting way off topic, and I for one would rather see physics
posts than religious debate.  If I want debate that is astrological or
religious in nature, I would subscribe to other listserves that exist for
that purpose.

I think that we can generally agree that astrology is the sometimes misused
word that 10% of the population think is astronomy, and that when used
correctly, describes something that is not scientific.  My opinion of it
does not belong here...I do not equate it to a science.  Nor is a religion a
scientifically testable arena.  Nor does Pat Robertson represent the sum
total of present day, non scientific religious leaders.  Religion is a
matter of faith - not scientifically testable.

This is not meant as assertively as it probably reads, but let's at least
debate the true role of astronomy or astrophysics in astrology if we want to
go there.  Otherwise, let's move into more stimulating but focused areas.
Just one person's opinion:)

Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: "mike sloothaak set L DIG" <mike.sloothaak@EXCITE.COM>
To: <PHYS-L@lists.nau.edu>
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: a belief equal to that of astrology


> Dear Mark,
>
> So you WOULD agree that Rev. Pat Robertson and his devoted followers
deserve
> the same contempt you reserve to astrologers and their followers? Or not?
>
> I'm still getting a feeling that a double standard is being applied. It is
> hip in the scientific community to bash astrology lately, and I too have
> participated in that. But when "respected" religions like Evangelicalism
> come up, you pepper your responses with qualifications. I get the feeling
> that we are becomming intellectual bullies: picking on "weak" faiths
> mercilessly, but tipping our hats to similar belief systems just because
> they have political or social clout.
>
> Date:    Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:32:40 -0700
> From:    "Shapiro, Mark" <mshapiro@EXCHANGE.FULLERTON.EDU>
> Subject: Re: a belief equal to that of astrology
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Dear Mike,
>
> The answer to your question, like the answer to most prayers is, no.
>
> I do think that in general there are differences between religious beliefs
> and astrology.  Most core religious beliefs are untestable.  I certainly
> agree with you that some religious leaders do make predictions that they
> claim are based on their beliefs.  And these predictions have a no higher
> probability of being correct than one would expect from chance.  I don't
> think, however, that making such predictions is a requirement of religious
> faith.  There are plenty of ministers, priests, rabbis, etc. who are quite
> content to focus on the untestable claims of their religions.
>
> Mark
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mike sloothaak set L DIG [mailto:mike.sloothaak@EXCITE.COM]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 10:05 AM
> To: PHYS-L@lists.nau.edu
> Subject: a belief equal to that of astrology
>
>
> I would disagree with the conclusion that there is no difference between
> >  degrees in divinity and degrees in astrology.  While there are some
> >  similarities between religious claims and astrological claims, there
also
> >  are major differences.  Religious claims are untestable for the most
> part.
> >  Astrologers, on the other hand, make claims that can be tested; and, as
> >  David Lunney has noted the claims fail the test.
>
> A few years ago, Rev. Pat Robertson stated very clearly that a catastorphe
> would strike Jacksonville, FL in the (then) near future because city
fathers
> supported a gay pride event. That was a clear prediction of cause and
> effect, observable and verifiable. Anyone who attended an evangelical
> service would know that observable and verifiable predictions are made
> routinely.
>
> Knowing that, may I now assume that The Irascible ProfessorSM advocates
> treating evangelical divinity degrees with the same contempt he gives to
> Astrology degrees?
>
>
>
>
>
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